« Sing along with Julie and Paul | Main | A rash argument »

07/24/2004

Why we don't stop

Andrea wrote:

Many of the women who do pursue ART, whom I've known online through the forums and, more recently, blogs, are both forging on and being broken as I speak, as I read, as you read this. I am not losing empathy — I don't think that's possible — but I am beginning to lose my ability to understand how anyone could put herself through this, try after try, miscarriage after miscarriage, one grim prognosis after another...how can the body, how can the soul survive it?

I would never post it on anyone's blog, but I feel OK about posting it here, on my own turf: I wish you'd stop. Please don't do this to yourself anymore. You will be great parents; be parents already. Just stop trying to get pregnant.

I know: horribly rude. It is verboten, in Infertileland, to suggest that a fellow infertile ought to do anything other than hope and soldier on. But I can't help wishing it — I can't bear to watch any more. Maybe I'll just stop reading. Except I know I won't.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, friends — don't jump on Andrea, okay? She's endured infertility herself, and, with empathy and sincerity, asks what I consider to be a very pertinent question: why don't we just stop?

If we're honest, I suspect most of us will admit we've asked ourselves that, usually in the darkest hours after a negative, a cancellation, another miscarriage. I asked myself that a lot.

When Paul and I first weighed our options before attempting IVF, our calculations were fairly straightforward: given the cost of IVF in our area, we could do three cycles for the cost of an adoption. Given my age, my general health, and the overall success rates, it was reasonable for us to suppose that within those three cycles I would become pregnant.

It sounds so cut and dried. That's certainly how it felt.

What you probably don't know when you start treatment is just how infertile you truly might be. Oh, sure, you know there's something wrong — but how bad could it be when you're 31, ovulate regularly, and have a normal hormonal profile? I mean, there's that slight male factor to think about, but if the only obvious problem is getting sperm and egg to meet cute, it's not outrageous to assume that IVF will work for you within a relatively short time.

You go in thinking that it will work. I'm young, I'm strong, and I want this enough. But what you can't know then is just how unlucky you might be, and how quickly "just one try" can turn into more.

How do you stop once you've started? How do you give up when, at first, your chances go up with subsequent cycles? How do you say no when a new protocol holds promise? How do you cut your losses and walk away? Like any dangerous habit, it's easier never to start than it is to kick the fucking thing once it's taken hold.

In my case, the second cycle was a given: I'd gotten pregnant under adverse circumstances after our first IVF, and we thought we finally had a diagnosis. Although it ended sadly, I wasn't broken then. I was energized and hopeful. We knew we could make a good embryo, one that wanted to cling and grow. How could we stop then?

When the second cycle went haywire, I was deeply discouraged. In its immediate aftermath we had no firm plans for a third. That I got pregnant then still shocks me; that I lost it still makes me cry. We knew we could make a good embryo, and we knew one could grow in my uterus. We also knew the deep happiness of pregnancy, and the electrifying joy of seeing a beating heart. I knew how it felt to want that again. I couldn't stop then. I needed to try.

After the third cycle, we faced a difficult choice, and found ourselves at the most logical stopping point yet. My eggs were bad, said my doctor, who wrote on my chart, "Donor eggs. Closure?"

Many people do stop there, and we might have, but I had questions, big ones. With two pregnancies after three cycles, could my eggs be that bad? At 32, was my reproductive life over before it had even really begun? Was that heartbeat I saw just a fluke?

Could I move on, could I stop with a peaceful heart, leaving such questions hanging unanswered?

One more cycle for "closure." Which brings us to today.

The thought that kept me going was the knowledge I could get pregnant. I knew I couldn't stop until I'd truly hit bottom, and at every turn I saw I hadn't gotten there yet. I couldn't say "enough" until I'd truly had enough.

How other women do it, I don't really know; I can only assume that their reasons are as powerful and consuming as mine. I know, from speaking with women who've finally changed course, that when we hit that wall, we know it beyond doubt — when that happens, we can leave treatment behind, maybe not without regret but with relief and resolve. But probably not before.

To those of you still going, why don't you stop? What keeps you going? I do believe you should hope and soldier on if the need is still within you. If we're to be true to ourselves, I don't think we can do otherwise.

To Andrea, this will seem like a long and rambling attempt to justify a baffling kind of martyrdom. I think I understand where your frustration comes from, because I've felt it myself as I watch the women I love taking blow after blow without hollering "uncle." It's painful to watch people you care about — even friends inside the computer — struggle when it seems on its face unnecessary.

But to any of us still pursuing treament after disappointment, the struggle is necessary. Why don't we stop? Each of us has a different and complicated answer, I'm sure, but I suspect most would say, "I can't. Not yet."

Posted by Julie at 05:53 PM in I've learned a lot...but I'm not sure it's worth it. | Permalink

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d834518e0569e200d834215b6f53ef

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Why we don't stop:

» why don't we stop? from Rainbow's Point
the trackbacks here point to a post and an event that's stirred up some discussion in the infertility blogworld, which i admit i'm only peripherally a part of. i'm both male, not myself infertile, and have successfully completed (with the admirable... [Read More]

Tracked on Jul 25, 2004 4:34:27 AM

» Babies are a lousy cure-all from this woman's work
A discussion over at a little pregnant made me think about something. Having a baby, unfortunately, is not a cure for infertility. I think it's a myth that parenthood resolves infertility. I've been hanging with formerly infertile people who are... [Read More]

Tracked on Jul 26, 2004 1:46:01 PM

Comments (59)

When it finally becomes more painful to keep trying than to imagine giving up, I will stop. Unfortunately, I'm almost there. By the end of the year, I'll know. One way or the other.

Posted by: Danae at Jul 24, 2004 6:08:59 PM

"Why don't you just stop?"

Because I can't, I am unable to give up, lose hope, or admit to failure.

I can't stop because it has gone on for too long and I know, eventually, it has to work.

You wouldn't ask an alcoholic "why don't you just stop drinking", because you know s/he can't. I can't stop hoping. There has to be a life changing moment. A moment that is without any hope. I would have to reach bottom. I haven't, even after all the failed cycles.

I have a renewed hope that using donor eggs would positively get me pregnant. I cannot look past this next cycle, yet. Only time can tell me when to stop.

Posted by: Jodi at Jul 24, 2004 6:17:06 PM

>Only time can tell me when to stop.

Oh, I know. I know. Ya'll understand that that was a cry of pain in reaction to others' suffering, a wish, not a snippy little piece of advice, right?

Posted by: Andrea at Jul 24, 2004 6:37:40 PM

I hope that's understood — that's certainly how I interpreted it.

Posted by: Julie at Jul 24, 2004 6:42:10 PM

Phew!

Posted by: Andrea at Jul 24, 2004 6:46:54 PM

and, as someone who did stop, after only 6 cycles of Clomid and IUI, I will always wonder if I gave up too soon. I had to stop for me, I was broken, I was alcoholic and I just couldn't take it anymore. Everyone has to do what is right for them. I feel so much love for all of you who keep trying, if only I had known you all then...who knows?

Posted by: Debe at Jul 24, 2004 6:53:23 PM

Tuesday's beta will let me know if it's time to stop. I've endured 9 IUI's, too many rounds of that bastard Clomid, shot up w/ more needles than I care to count (my bathroom looks like a crackhouse) and suffered through 5 miscarriages. looks pretty daunting to see it spelled out like that, but the hope was still there, each time that that pregnancy would make it-I couldn't possibly lose another one. I decided going in that we would try 1 fresh and 1 frozen IVF and we'd be through. well, since I apparently have crap eggs and none to be frozen, I will have truly reached the end of the line, and I think I'll be okay with the fact I've done all that *I* possibly could. 4 years ago I never imagined we'd be at this point, but here we are.
(sorry to write a novel Julie-but Andrea, no offense taken by this highly Infertile Myrtle)

Posted by: Trish at Jul 24, 2004 7:06:51 PM

I can't tell you how many times I've had the "that's it, no more" debate in my head after a negative result or a miscarriage. But then I wake up. To quit would mean all the heartache and disappointment and energy that we've put into trying to conceive was for nothing. Maybe we're vain, but my husband and I are people who want credit for our hard work - we want results. Perhaps it's the overachiever in us or the work ethic - who knows. For us there's no martyrdom - if you want something, you go for it and if there are obstacles thrown your way, you overcome them. Period. I hate to sound so stoic because it's not how I really am on a daily basis, but overall this is how we operate. I can't see us ever giving up - it's just what we're gonna do.

Dana

PS - 2nd beta came back great- it's doubling like it should. 3rd beta is on Tuesday. Although I'm a little comforted, I'm still waiting for the bad thing to happen. It's hard not to.

Posted by: Dana at Jul 24, 2004 8:00:38 PM

Andrea, that's how I took it as well. It is hard to watch others go through so much. It is hard to endure so much, to see my husband go through it. But what it comes down to is that it *feels* like giving up. Like we are acknowledging some fault in our own bodies that we don't want to see. When the moment comes, in alcoholism it is called "Rock Bottom", in fertility I'd prefer to think of it as "Moment of Alacrity", we know it. Some take years, some take months. Some never get there, and some never need to get there.

I am not there yet. There's still too much to try.

Posted by: OliviaDrab at Jul 24, 2004 8:08:29 PM

>it *feels* like giving up. Like we are acknowledging some fault in our own bodies that we don't want to see

I do know. I still have moments of "what if?' and "why did I give up?' I have moments of feeling like a weenie-ass weakling for deciding *not* to go the ART route. I still blame myself for not finding the right partner when I was young enough, and not starting TTC the second I realized that I'd finally found him. And I still occasionally apologize to my husband for not being able to make us a baby, which does not please him.

There's no good way out of IF.

Posted by: Andrea at Jul 24, 2004 8:56:52 PM

I kept going because thinking about stopping hurt more than keeping going.

Posted by: Gina at Jul 24, 2004 8:57:00 PM

Praying for everyone that they won't have to try until they can't take it any more. I hope and pray you all hit the jackpot before breaking.

Posted by: Stephanie at Jul 24, 2004 10:00:46 PM

Praying for everyone that they won't have to try until they can't take it any more. I hope and pray you all hit the jackpot before breaking.

Posted by: Stephanie at Jul 24, 2004 10:01:06 PM

Praying for everyone that they won't have to try until they can't take it any more. I hope and pray you all hit the jackpot before breaking.

Posted by: Stephanie at Jul 24, 2004 10:01:18 PM

Praying for everyone that they won't have to try until they can't take it any more. I hope and pray you all hit the jackpot before breaking.

Posted by: Stephanie at Jul 24, 2004 10:01:19 PM

Yep. As I posted on Andrea's site, it is really so hard to see when it is time to stop. In our case, we decided in advance how far we'd go, no matter what happened later.

But it is hard sticking to that, as this is definitely not cut and dried. The truly terrible thing about this is that there is no clear moment that screams "stop." Every time hope ends, more questions, other options come up. This is not easy. And, in the end, each one of us has a different tolerance point.

I think Andrea gets that, and I don't think it represents a loss of empathy AT ALL - rather a concerned question about why we test ourselves to the limit of our endurance. And I don't have an answer to that.

Posted by: Menita at Jul 24, 2004 10:49:06 PM

I think I had it easy in some respects - I was diagnosed with Premature Ovarian Failure at age 18, long before my desire and readiness for children kicked in. Once I was ready, it was basically the choice between adoption or using donor eggs. We chose adoption after not much consideration. I think when you have many possibilities and choices and hopes for success, you keep trying. As those choices get stripped away (painfully, painfully) the closer you may be to saying enough. In some ways, the fewer choices you have, the easier it is to make the decision. For me, I had so few choices that I never had to make the decision to stop - just not to start in the first place.

(And I have to say it because it's my reality - adoption has been the most amazing, joyful, love-filled mothering experience I could ever have hoped to have had. My daughter has filled my heart with exquisite joy.)

Posted by: Brooklyn Mama at Jul 24, 2004 11:02:25 PM

I can't stop, because, at least for right now, maybe the next one will do it...or the one after that, or the one after that.

For me, the end all to be all will be when I turn 40 next June. After that, I don't need a savant to tell me that my chances of becoming a nun are better than getting pregnant. For right now, I've got the cash to burn, still on the right side of 40, and a gambler's fever.

Posted by: Emily at Jul 24, 2004 11:04:46 PM

For me it's as simple as Julie suspected it might be:

I can't stop. Not yet.

Posted by: Brooklyn Girl at Jul 24, 2004 11:11:01 PM

I'll stop when they pry that pee stick out of my cold dead hand.

Okay, maybe I've seen too many NRA bumper stickers lately.

I'll stop when I can't take it anymore.

Posted by: chris at Jul 25, 2004 12:15:50 AM

I'll stop when the cash runs out or the eggs go bad. We'll see which one wins first.

BTW, I don't believe in closure. I do believe in acceptance.

Posted by: Marla at Jul 25, 2004 12:53:06 AM

I stopped when I got further then I ever had in a pg and still lost it. I had no hope that I could carry a baby, and so much fear and feeling out of control. Moving on to adoption made me feel in control of my life again. Ditto what Brooklyn Mama said. It has been one of the most joyous experiences of my life.
I think everyone has a different place when they say enough is enough, and we have to respect that, but its hard to see all the pain. Especially knowing how shitty it all was.

Posted by: Lisa at Jul 25, 2004 1:21:18 AM

All it took was one visit to an RE to put an end to my ART endeavors before I even got started, so afraid was I of the phenomenon Julie describes thusly:

Like any dangerous habit, it's easier never to start than it is to kick the fucking thing once it's taken hold.

I took the easy way, sisters. I just didn't want to go there. I went straight to the adoption agency once the talk of percentages and chances started up. I couldn't deal with "maybe." I wanted "baby."

And yes, it worked for me. But I look back at my adoption experience and compare it to my pregnancy experience and say, "Holy mother of God, if I had known what pregnancy would be, how easy and private and magical and relatively quick, well, maybe I would have tried harder to begin with." But then I wouldn't have Nico, and Nico is the most amazing kid in the universe I could ever have the privilege to parent. I mean it.

My husband and I talk a lot about how lucky we were to be infertile: we have Nico. If we had gotten pregnant, would we have adopted? Doubtful. And I am so glad our first kid came that way. He paved the way for his sister, blazed her a trail. She waited; somehow she knew to let him come first.

Thank God.

Posted by: mollie at Jul 25, 2004 1:41:29 AM

Because.

Posted by: Liz at Jul 25, 2004 1:55:23 AM

I'm not someone who can answer 'Why don't you stop?', because I fear I'll be one of those who instead will be answering, 'Why couldn't you give it just one more try? Barely into ttc my second child, my tiny slice of the infertility pie has been so breathtakingly painful that, as much empathy as I've felt for my infertile friends, I profoundly doubt that I could walk in their paths any further than I have gone already.

Posted by: jilbur at Jul 25, 2004 5:19:07 AM

I guess I'll stop treatments when my doctor tells me I must. And, since he's the type of guy who will go the distance, I don't see that day in the very, near future. I'm relatively healthy, resonably mentally stable and still somewhat financially solvent. Most of all, we want to start a family more than anything on this Earth.

What has kept me going? My husband's eyes, and knowing that sometime soon, a child of mine will stare into them and all will be right with the world.

Posted by: Sherry at Jul 25, 2004 6:40:19 AM

I'm very fortunate to have a doctor that I have a strong relationship with. After I've forgotten how many IUI's, 2 rounds of clomid, countless rounds of injections, 2 ivf's, 2 ectopic pregnancies resulting in the loss of both of my fallopian tubes, (gah) my doctor, my husband, and I have decided one more fresh cycle, and that's it.

After my last ectopic, my doctor and I sat in his office and talked for over an hour. He told me that I am the poster child for the "ride" of infertility treatments. He said in his experience, chances of success go down after the 3rd ivf. Together we decided that one more will end the "ride". It was very difficult to make that decision, but it's just so neccessary at this point.

If adoption had ever been a financial option for me, I would have done it a long time ago. We've only paid for one ivf out of pocket, and since my nurse had given us all the meds for free(!), it only ended up costing us $5k. Insurance has always paid for cycles. If I had $20k lying around, I'd adopt in a heartbeat.

What this long and rambling comment is trying to say is that I would have given up a long time ago if I had other options available. The years of treatment have wrecked me physically and emotionally, I've aged 10 years in the past 4, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Posted by: Janet at Jul 25, 2004 11:07:08 AM

as someone who has stopped and just adopted here is why I stopped: I always knew I would have children and I never cared if I had them or if I adopted them, we always thought we would do both. We wanted to be parents, not pregnant. The third cycle did me in. I was dead inside, my body ached, and I thought if I did this one more time, I would be too broken to fix, I woulnd't be any good to anyone, I would suck at motherhood. So I stopped. And I adopted. And now I'm so glad I did. And even though we were recently handed a chance to try again thanks to the return of my preiod via HRT, I won't. Motherhood has filled every hole in my heart. I am a mother. That's what I always wanted to be. I think that's what Andrea was trying to say.

Posted by: virginia at Jul 25, 2004 11:51:30 AM

I'm glad to have sparked this conversation and hope even more people will chime in. For the record, though, I never asked "Why don't you stop?" as much as I hollared, "OH-MY-GOD-THE-PAIN-I-CAN'T BEAR-TO-WATCH-I-WISH-YOU'D-STOP!!!!"

Different. That said, though, I'm finding it very valuable hearing the individual answers to "why don't you stop?"

Posted by: Andrea at Jul 25, 2004 1:38:47 PM

Stopping means admitting defeat. Stopping means admitting I am broken. If I am told I have no choice but to stop, I will, maybe. Course, I'm still in the early stages, so maybe this is all not even involving me.

Posted by: Kris at Jul 25, 2004 1:59:12 PM

Mollie, thanks for your comments. You really gave me something to think about. I conceived my daughter at age 38 on my first IVF. Before you say it or think it, I got the pain on the back-end. I went through 4 IVF's last year searching for a sibling. It was a heartbreaking year - two negative cycles and two miscarriages at 9 weeks plus a natural chemical thrown in to add to the excitement. There were several times I thought I needed to call it quits, but I can't.

Prior to my daughter, I said that I would try a couple of IVF's and hang it up. How naive and short-sighted I was!!! Your comments make me realize that if my daughter hadn't come along when she did that maybe I would never have tried so hard to have a child or for that matter think about a second.

I have finally decided to give up on my eggs and go the donor egg route. This was a major breakthrough for me. Can't deny that it scares me to death, but I still feel the need and desire to pursue another child regardless of the biology. I worry sometimes that I am pushing the envelope and that I will have "careful what you wish for experience." But if I flip it to the positive then maybe my special little girl is paving the way for another very special child to come into the world.

S.

Posted by: S. at Jul 25, 2004 2:58:14 PM

I only stopped because my oncologist said, "No more fertility drugs. Ever." And I'm grateful to him for saying that, really truly grateful. He took the decision out of my hands. If it hadn't been for him saying that, I have no idea if I would ever have been able to resolve my infertility and move on to adoption.

Posted by: Kim at Jul 25, 2004 3:37:50 PM

You know why we don't stop? I know why. Because that complete and unblievable urge to feel a child grow with in us. To look at a large belly and see part of our selves growing with in us. We don't stop, because it's not in our nature to stop. Men don't understand that I think. They think they do, and I truly believe that they try with all their might to understand us, but they don't. I used to have a saying that most people, unlike all of you, don't understand. Everyone around me was pregnant, every where I went I saw pregnant women, and I thought "Babies, Babies everywhere, and not a one for me!" It is part of that primal part of ourselves. WE, the women are supposed to have the children, we are supposed to carry on the human race, and when we can't, we do everything in our power to do it anyway.

After 6 years and 4 misscariages, and lost of tears and heartbreak, I received the second best thing in my life, my baby boy Jeffrey. What if I had given up early? What if I had just said "To hell with it, I'm done." Then he wouldn't be with me, and that idea frightens me.

It's simple, we keep going because we have to, because we are all mom's, we just need the babies to make it official.

I believe in fertility treatments, and I believe in adoption, hell I even believe in surrogates, what I don't believe is that if you truly want to be a Mom, it's your right. Those people that tell you that maybe it's just not meant to be, has never felt that complete and utter need to have a child. That emotional part of us all that rules the roost, no matter how logical we are trying to be.

Just keep trying and have faith. We are all meant to be Mom's, we just have to wait our turns.

Amy

Posted by: Amy at Jul 25, 2004 3:51:47 PM

For the record, though, I never asked "Why don't you stop?"

Yeah, y'all, I'm the one who asked that. I'm eager not to implicate Andrea in anything more than sparking a thought process in my brain. I'll take the heat for the rest!

Posted by: Julie at Jul 25, 2004 3:58:15 PM

Thank you Julie, Andrea, and all for this incredibly moving discussion. Uncanny timing, as my husband and I came to the end with a miscarriage this morning, our second in 3 months, with my sister's eggs. 5 years, a 20-wk loss with our own eggs, yada, yada. You know the drill.

In the beginning, I procrastinated going to a RE because I was frightened of the 'slippery slope' of infertility treatments. Rationally, I believed there were plenty of needy children and we could just adopt. But, as others have said, it always seemed like the next thing might work. For me, it was always about being pregnant and breastfeeding, more than the genetic connection. Having come so far in a pregnancy made that harder to give up.

But today I am broken. I cannot imagine putting us through any more pain. I told my husband the only way I would go through any of this again (we still have a few frozen embryos, making it even harder to say no, stop, now) was if I could be in a coma for the first 12 weeks if we got pregnant. That is literally the only way I can imagine functioning throughout early pregnancy.

Gotta get back to the 'dear birthmother' letter. Adoption will, I know, bring us joy in the end. I have just two remaining fears about all of this - that we will have more heartache during the adoption process (we actually already started to work with one birthmom who changed her mind); and that we will never really 'get over this', there will be some underlying grief throughout the rest of our lives.

Sorry for the long post. Thanks for listening, M

Posted by: M at Jul 25, 2004 5:35:27 PM

Oh, M.

Holding you in the light, as the Quakers say.

Posted by: Julie at Jul 25, 2004 6:30:01 PM

This discussion has been really interesting and moving. I just want to say that sometimes I feel as though adoption and the experience of parenting adopted children are looked upon as second-best choices. And again, because I just have to be a gentle advocate for adoption (while absolutely respecting everyone's own choices), I just want to say that it has been a wonderful experience - not second-best, and not filled with sadness or regret. As Amy can't imagine her life without her son, the thought that I might not have adopted my daughter is unthinkable. I can't imagine loving a child more, and can't imagine any child of any genetic combination fitting better into our family.

Posted by: Brooklyn Mama at Jul 25, 2004 8:02:19 PM

This decision is such a personal one. It's true, that you just know when you have to stop. My husband and I stopped ART after just three IUIs. I know that our doctors and nurses believed we had just started, but to us it felt like it had been going on forever. I felt so crappy about myself, having to go for ultrasounds and bloodwork every day. Do I regret stopping? Yes, in some ways. But my body literally won't let me go back to that place, where I felt like there was something wrong with my body, something wrong with ME if I wasn't able to get pregnant.

Posted by: Mango at Jul 25, 2004 8:08:16 PM

Good question. I have asked myself that many, many times. Especially after IVF#3 failed. I just cannot give up. I think I will know in my heart when it is my time to move on.

Posted by: NSR at Jul 25, 2004 8:54:27 PM

Brooklyn Mama, I like your style. Adoption has been wonderful--both for me and for my kids. It was hard to say good bye to knowing that I will never look at a person who shares a blood tie with me. Ever. But I also can't imagine life without Mad and Mere. Or my Mom and Dad and adopted sister, and her adopted kids, etc. I wish everybody a happy ending, however it arrives.

Posted by: lorrie at Jul 25, 2004 10:53:21 PM

Interesting question. I have asked myself that. I guess I am hoping that I will just know. Started TTC 1997. Had numerous uterine surgeries. M/C #1 2000 @ 8 weeks. Loss #2 at 5 months with a normal son. (Amnio normal). Then told my uterus too damaged after his birth to EVER be pregnant again.
So started IVF with my eggs and dh's sperm and a healthy uterus (GS).
IVF#1-BFN
IVF#2 and #3 BFP--m/c.
So when do we give up?
Starting #4 with new RE and new GS.
Guess I am just addicted.
Will see.......
Tough question.
I guess we will quit when RE says no more.

Posted by: Laura at Jul 25, 2004 11:31:49 PM

Wont stop until I have a healthy baby in my arms, whether through IVF, DE, adoption, whatever. Because I am not prepared to live childfree. That is simply not an option.

Posted by: Tertia at Jul 26, 2004 1:05:40 AM

i've been meaning to say this somewhere. i fell upon getupgrrl awhile ago and then started following some of y'alls stories from links on her blog. i didn't know anything about infertility, i'm just a woman who is single who's biological clock is ticking away who wants so much to be a mama. i think i'm fertile, i don't know.

my point. i'm reading about infertility and i'm reading all the wonderful and horrible things that go along and now, being the lurker that i am, i have developed a new sensitivity. i'm finding that i am defending women going through infertility when i see careless posts about articles.. i'm finding that when i see a couple who should be parents, i think "oh no, maybe they can't." and i want to talk to them and tell them about all of y'all.

so, thank you, thank you for raising my awareness and being willing to share your story.. all the stories that are shared on all the blogs.. (i just posted here, hope thats okay).

one last thing to be on topic.. i'll be honest, i wonder why y'all go through cycle and cycle and cycle. why oh why. but i only wonder and know that i can't judge. its not my place, it is no one's place to judge what other women and future parents choose to do.

Posted by: brooke at Jul 26, 2004 2:47:42 AM

Well, this is one of the perils of reading American blogs, I suppose.

Not everyone has the option of adopting. For some of us, if we can't carry it ourselves, we'll never be parents.

so, for all of you reading this who have that option, be glad and know how lucky you are.

I just have to keep trying.

Posted by: Expat at Jul 26, 2004 6:41:24 AM

and a rousing hand of applause for Tertia's statement.

I have pain roughly every month or so, now, when I fear I may never be a mother, or at least not yet.

If I stopped, I would have pain every day, knowing I would never be a mother.

Trying gives me a reason to go on with my life.

Posted by: Expat at Jul 26, 2004 6:53:59 AM

I am interested in people's views on the book reviewed at the following site http://northernlife.senet.com.au/21aug2002.htm and the original controversial article "The sins of our feminist mothers" written by an Australian journalist at http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/07/22/1026898972150.html?oneclick=true.

The argument is basically this: that many Western women who grew up during the feminist movement of the 70's, felt we were being told by our mothers and/or teachers etc "to study hard, obtain careers and worry about babies later". Suddenly we all now find ourselves in our mid to late thirties with great careers and fertility problems that cannot be overcome by the miracles of science, and what I like to call "the lies National Geographic told us" e.g we'd all be zooming around on the moon with Jet Packs by the 1980's.

I for one thought that mid 30's was a reasonable time to start, and certainly worked with enough women of that age group just starting on baby number one. I now know that this approach is fine if you have no problems, but if you've been masking PCOS, endo or anovulation with the Pill for the last 10 years, and/or if DH has low or zero sperm count, you could be fast tracking it all the way to ART before you know it, only to find out in your late 30's that your chances of successful IVF are seriously limited due to the age of your eggs, and that there is no alternative.

Whilst not necessarily blaming the feminist movement, I do blame lack of information from sex educators, Health lobbyists and the medical world. I know several women in their very late 30's still being told by their GPs to try for at least a year and that they are still young. We live in a world where many women have all sorts of choices and options that our mothers and grandmothers never had, however, it is also a world which the media portrays as so scientifically advanced, that we are all apparently on our backs in the IVF clinics asking the RE to just select the one embryo for transfer with blue hair, purple eyes, and who is guaranteed to represent our Country someday in the field of sport, medicine, art etc! Reality check: I had 9 very good quality embryos and so far not one has taken, yet I managed 3 (unsuccessful) pregnancies on my own before the irreparable damage caused to my tubes by two of these condemned us to IVF. So whilst my naturally created embryos are able to cause me life threatening damage by growing in the air contained in my tubes, the IVF produced ones, when presented with a proper endometrium and my actual uterus, just slide off the walls like undercooked spaghetti.

IVF is cruel, unpredictable, time consuming, financially and emotionally crippling, but I keep going because I can't believe I was so organised and responsible about when I would have children, and so careful with my reproductive health, that I now miss out, whilst all the friends who got knocked up accidentally between bouts of low grade STDs, get to winge about how tiring and expensive it is having children and a career.

Posted by: Binka at Jul 26, 2004 7:44:34 AM

Wow, very thought-provoking, Binka. This deserves its own entry, I think.

Posted by: Julie at Jul 26, 2004 11:11:16 AM

binka, I am 45. I can tell you my personal experience, fwiw. When I was in my 20s what I heard was that you absolutely should not wait any older than 35 to try. But there would be no problems @ 35, and if so, the docs could fix it quickly. Of course, that seemed like forever. I dillied around with bad men, yada, really never giving the old clock much thought. Married @33, tried AI at 37, no luck. Gave up quickly and adopted. I do think that the word is quietly seeping out that you should start trying wayyyyyyy before 35...

Posted by: lorrie at Jul 26, 2004 11:18:37 AM

Mollie said: "But I look back at my adoption experience and compare it to my pregnancy experience and say, "Holy mother of God, if I had known what pregnancy would be, how easy and private and magical and relatively quick, well, maybe I would have tried harder to begin with."

You know what? Our adoption was easier than the pregnancy. I didn't constantly worry about miscarriage with the adoption, for one. That was huge. It cast a pall over Noah's entire first year because I was sure that if I didn't lose him to miscarriage, I would lose him to SIDS. It's one reason (there were lots of reasons) I stopped relatively early in ART -- I realized that the pregnancy would be so emotionally painful that I likely would not be able to mother Noah while going through it. Adoption looked like a gleaming sunbeam of hope compared to 9 months of nervous hell.

When I'm holding Madison, I wish that I could somehow convey to people unsure about pursuing adoption that it's been just as good as having a bio baby. The rewards are different and I know it's not a path appropriate for everyone but I wish there was a way to reassure people wondering if it'll be all right that yes, it can absolutely be all right. I'm sure that child-free people who have chosen to resolve their infertility w/out kids feel the same way -- you know, that they wish they could reassure others in pain that the pain won't last forever. Of course the truth is that resolution is a different journey for every person and so while I echo Andrea's wish that the pain could stop and I hurt when I skim through the IF blogrolls, like her, too, I respect and honor everyone's unique path.

Posted by: Dawn at Jul 26, 2004 12:35:49 PM

I will stop trying when the idea of stopping brings a feeling of relief rather than a feeling of fear.

Posted by: Joanne at Jul 26, 2004 1:16:52 PM

Post a comment