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12/12/2004
In case you got here via that childfree site...
There are some points I'd like to clarify:
- Charlie was born two days shy of 30 weeks, not 28. It may not seem to make a big difference, but it does. I promise it would if it were a kid you cared about in that isolette, if there are any kids you care about. (Note that I am carefully avoiding making that assumption, for fear of giving insult where none is intended.)
- I haven't said anything about his needing to be on "assisted ventilation for at least the next 30 days." I don't even know what that might be, or how long he'd be on it if I could figure out what the fucking fuck it is.
- Charlie is neither pear-sized nor pear-shaped. He is closer in weight to sixteen sticks of butter, minus a couple of tablespoons, and closer in mass to a supermarket rotisserie chicken. Somebody check me here — maybe a canned ham instead? Now I am imagining my baby studded attractively with cloves, festooned with a pineapple slice, in accordance with the garish but helpful SERVING SUGGESTION printed right on the can. I got your modest proposal right here.
- Hey, so, um, why exactly are you concerned with my reproductive efforts?
- No, really, I mean it: why? I haven't even had a chance to become a bad parent yet.
- If you're happy and secure in your own reproductive choices, why are you wasting your time, your energy, and your valuable AOL minutes eavesdropping on infertiles?
- Because we're not the problem. I swear it. The kid kicking the back of your first-class airline seat ain't mine, after all.
- Oh, and "hysterical breeder wanna be" lacks pizzazz. Next time please consider turkey-baster fucking, dumbfuck breeder cunt. (You gotta admit it sings.)
Posted by Julie at 06:05 PM in The Internet is full. Go home. | Permalink
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Tracked on Dec 22, 2004 4:14:50 AM
Comments (84)
Oh. do post a link. I'm intrigued to say the least!
Posted by: Just Me at Dec 12, 2004 6:07:47 PM
And for once, I'm the first to comment. Go me!!
Posted by: Just Me at Dec 12, 2004 6:08:22 PM
Yes, please do post a link. (I need to know who to flame)
Posted by: Lucky Ducky at Dec 12, 2004 6:17:40 PM
Yes do post a link!
Posted by: Millie at Dec 12, 2004 6:17:54 PM
Hate when I don't know what is going on...and it happens far too much. errrrrrrr
Posted by: Amber at Dec 12, 2004 6:25:04 PM
Bravo!!
Dude, you rock!
Posted by: Danae at Dec 12, 2004 6:25:41 PM
Oh God.. the monkey fuckers are at it again?
And are talking about our sweet Charlie???????
Look fuckfaces.. and I do know you're reading this... MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS. Just because you don't like children doesn't mean you have the right to talk about us, much less our babies. Thank GOD you don't have children ... the world doesn't need more of you.
And FYI... and you can take *this* back to your funky-fart smelling asshats..
Charlie is the most beautiful baby I've ever seen... he has his father's eyes and his mother's chin and more courage and fight in his little pinky than you've ever had in your entire body.
Oh... and Go Fuck Yourself. (lord knows no one else would want to) Idiots.
Love, Brenda
Posted by: BrendaS at Dec 12, 2004 6:29:14 PM
WTF??? Don't these people have anything better to do? Oops, obviously the answer is no, because if they HAD A LIFE they wouldn't be bothering you!
Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease post a link. I'm dying to flame some one! (Who so clearly deserves it!!)
I'm sorry about this. Batmoms shouldn't have to deal with this crap.
Posted by: Abby at Dec 12, 2004 6:41:56 PM
I'd just like to clarify I was TTC b4 my divorce and love children, probobly to a fault, and can't wait for my own.
As for you people from the Childfree site... you have no souls if you cannot see what a gift any child is. I suggest you take your negative comments and disappear because my ferocious side is a whole lot worse than anything you've ever seen. This family has just been through a harrowing experience to become just such... a family. If you have no family... I am sorry, but that is no excuse to emotionally assault innocent people who have done nothing at all to you.
Please post a link... I have yet to give them a piece of MY mind.
Charlie, Julie and Paul... you are in my thoughtsprayersheart. I thought of you all when I woke up at 4am. Hang in there.
Posted by: Ellen at Dec 12, 2004 6:43:29 PM
Dear Childfree flamers,
When I say nasty things about people, it's because I'm bitter and seething with jealousy, but at least I have the balls to admit it...what's your excuse? (Careful about protesting just a little too muhc). I'm sure there is some other cause that you all other your childfree, 'mensa' buddies can get your arms around...please find it and leave.
Honestly Julie, for the life of me, I'll never see why you're still getting this crap. I wish you had the time to write another brilliant retort along the lines of your Donne poem.
Thinking of you and your family every day.
xxoo,
Posted by: Emily at Dec 12, 2004 8:22:50 PM
Hey, as a childfree kind of gal, I'm sick and tired of bitchy CF trolls making my side look bad. I don't go around telling random parents that they're raising the next Hitler just because they chose to procreate; those people need some serious psychological help.
I don't want kids, but I don't force that choice on anyone else; I do, however, want to praise the awesome parents that I see everyday.
I lurk on here, Julie, because I admire your writing and your attitude towards life. I wish you and your family all the best, and I apologize for any and all CF bitches who are giving you trouble. (Because Charlie is one of the cutest babies I've ever seen)
Posted by: Juri at Dec 12, 2004 8:24:42 PM
My best friend is childfree. I don't ask her to babysit my child (yikes) and she respects my decision to have one. We're lucky; we've learned a lot from each other's perspective. A few years ago, when she was looking for support from others who are childfree, she went to an online support group. Unfortunately, she was really turned off by the stupidity and anger on that site and others. I have visited some of the same sites, hoping to learn something that would help me communicate with my friend, and was pretty turned off myself. I understand some of their feelings--I even share some of them. But to attack the choices of others, especially the well-thought out choices of people who are or will be good parents seems pretty stupid.
Posted by: chris at Dec 12, 2004 8:45:08 PM
The site has some quite reasonable people posting "rants" about undisciplined, bratty kids and then it also has more than its fair share of truly scary deranged people, I mean like people who applauded the woman who ran down three kids in her SUV and then smoked a cigarette while the kids were lying bleeding in the parking lot..I hope none of them live on my block.
Posted by: jenna at Dec 12, 2004 9:10:10 PM
Gads. I came out of lurking just to apologize. I'm childfree, with no interest in kids, but I still love your journal. Please, please don't think an asshat like that represents the group as a whole. I was happy to hear you and Charlie are doing well. Your little Batman looks cute.
Posted by: Sylver at Dec 12, 2004 9:55:58 PM
Notes from a sane semi-CF-er:
I remain on the fence as to whether or not I'm ever going to have kids. I'm only twenty, which is a bit too young to be thinking about it anyway, so I'm in a good place to see both sides of the issue.
First of all, I am really sorry that people wrote that about you. I've been ghosting this site for a while now, and you seem to be a really cool person. If nothing else, you're funny and sarcastic, which makes you an A+ in my book regardless of whether or not we know each other.
It was wrong of them to go off on you like that. It doesn't matter how many IVF's you've had or when the Batkid made his appearance as long as you're committed to being a good parent to him. Fertility treatments are not covered by most insurances, so we're not paying higher premiums for you, and since you seem to be well-off enough to handle ivfs and a kid, we're probably not paying you any social benefits, either. I can understand the CF bitching about paying taxes to parents who leech off the system, but you're clearly not one of them, so I don't think they should be calling your reproduction, as it is, into question. I honestly don't understand why you were even on there. Most CF-ers don't really care about parents or their kids- we prefer to talk about our pets. :-)
That said, the Brats board ( and the CF community in general) does have a lot of legitimate complaints. On today's page, for example, there was a horror story about some parents who brought a two-year-old along to a fancy, expensive dinner who proceeded to terrorize everyone and completely wreck the evening. That's the kind of thing that CFers complain about: children who act like hellions in public whose parents do nothing to prevent it. They're not anti-child so much as anti-bad-parenting and, as people who don't want or have kids themselves, they're less inclined to make excuses for behavior that's entirely inexcusable and are more likely to pick up on the annoying things kids do that parents may have become immune to.
So please, don't write us all off because of some inconsiderate assholes. Some of us are nice people, really. I'm actually looking into being an obstetrical-gynecological surgeon. You know, one of those cool doctors that helps out the pregnant women.
Anyways, good luck with the kidlet. May he never give us anything to complain about.
Posted by: Lauren at Dec 12, 2004 10:00:12 PM
Gee, aren't you a giver.
Posted by: M. at Dec 12, 2004 10:09:53 PM
Yeah, I clicked over here from that childfree site. But I've been reading your archives and enjoying your writing. I may not agree with the lengths you go to just to have a kid of your own DNA, but at least you're not hysterical about it, you do have your head on straight.
And those people who want to come over and flame said site? It's a rant site. Plus, the moderator will delete your "flame" and block your IP. Also, what makes you think flaming back is any better? Turn the other cheek. What makes someone bray derisively may often be of interest to other of the same "group". I am quite frankly astonished by the behaviour exhibited by some of the commenters here. If you're so superior, why are you engaging in the same immature behaviour? Two wrongs don't make a right.
Now I'm going back to where I was in the archives, somewhere around IVF #3 I think.
Posted by: A. at Dec 12, 2004 10:17:55 PM
Thank you Lauren for mentioning the phrase "brats boward" - a quick google search immediately pulled up a childfree site _ I'm not sure yet if it's the one Julie got attacked on, but I'm looking. I had NO CLUE such people existed in the world - to call people who have children "breeders" who "whore out their uteruses to get that diamond wedding band." WHOA.
I guess not having kids they have all the time in the world to complain about those who do have children. Oh well, at least we can say this about them - they're not reproducing thank God!! This not having children business began one generation too late in their families.
And for any childfree readers of the antagonistic variety are rading this, listen up: I've got FOUR KIDS AGED THREE AND UNDER, with plans for MORE. Now go rant about THAT on your pathetic little site.
Julie, keep up the good work, you're a wonderful mom. :) (Hear that? you're a MOM now, isn't that so exciting??)
Posted by: Just Me at Dec 12, 2004 10:42:25 PM
maybe you should employ that popular "No email, no posting" rule a lot of people are doing. That if they don't support their comment enough to be open for a reply by leaving a real email address, the owner of the site will delete their comment.
Those concerned with getting spam at their address need only to leave a phony URL (http://www.typepad.com, http://www.google.com, etc) leaving the email address for you to use but no one else.
It just always annoys me when people don't own up to what they say. It always comes off as a preemptive "I'm an asshat and what I have to say doesn't matter" to me.
Posted by: Celina at Dec 12, 2004 10:51:17 PM
I've never posted here before, looong time lurker though! Julie can certainly handle trolls herself. However, scanning through childfree sites, it almost seems to me that MOST childfree people spend their copious and precious spare time obsessing about parents (a.k.a. "breeders") and their offspring. Which is odd, considering the lifestyle choice. At child"free" boards, rarely is there a post without a child mentioned! Indeed, children seem to be an obsession of the childfree. I've seen a few (very few) childfree people visit these boards and say, "You know, instead of complaining about every single child who makes a noise in my presence, I go sailing and travel around the world." These people are usually told to shut up, followed by 15,000 posts about someone named "Snotleigh" who managed in a single day to sneeze on a billion childfree people, talk loudly through Lord of the Rings as they watched it in the theaters for the tenth time, and then showed up later at each one of their fancy restaurants to cry and throw food. Yeah I read childfree boards for amusement!
Anyway, I am very impressed that Charlie has only been in the world two weeks and he is already pissing people off! I mean, I read on Tertia's blog that this kid is precocious, but damn, annoying the childfree-ers already! Good job, little buddy, I didn't start in on that til I was six. He obviously takes after his mama!
Keep up the good work, Batman!
Posted by: Elle at Dec 12, 2004 10:52:00 PM
Just Me: As long as you take good care of them and actually parent them, resulting in well-behaved well-adjusted productive members of society, then have AS MANY AS YOU WANT.
A lot of the saner childfree people do acknowledge that their beef is not with the children themselves, but with the parents who did not raise them. And since children will never stop being born, all we can wish for is that parents will beget parents will beget parents, instead of the same with what we call "breeders".
Posted by: A. at Dec 12, 2004 10:52:57 PM
Oh, yeah, and maybe if the parents in this thread would stop painting all CF-ers with a broad and hostile brush, we might be a little bit nicer to them, too.
Just a thought.
Posted by: Lauren at Dec 12, 2004 10:56:30 PM
Celina is right-I'm finding it very annoying that the 2 people who seem to have some over from the child free site seem to have bogus email addresses. Whimps.
Posted by: Abby at Dec 12, 2004 10:59:43 PM
Mine's real. E-mail away.
Posted by: Lauren at Dec 12, 2004 11:10:06 PM
The word is "wimps", Abby. If you're going to insult us, you really must spell said insult correctly.
And why does it matter if I have a bogus email address or not? I don't want some spider picking up my address from this page, first of all, and second of all I'm sure I'd get hate mail right in my box about how I'm a babyeater. When people take off their gloves and start scratching, I DON'T paint a target on my chest. Common sense, yeah?
Also, finding something on someone else's webpage annoying is silly. If Julie were to ask me to put down an email or have me send her an email to validate my internet existence, I would. But you're not Julie and this is not your site, Abby.
I hope I have made my point.
Posted by: A. at Dec 12, 2004 11:12:52 PM
I'm actually not a parent at all. I'm "childfree", heh, although I'm planning on "breeding" like a mofo and "spawning" as many "crotchdroplings" as I see fit in the near future, hopefully!
My aunt, uncle and his wife, and a few close family friends have no children. Rather than obsessing about it, though, they actually live their lives! Rather than loathing every small child they come into contact with, they socialize with the family, take pictures of the babies, interact with the children, and then go on and live their lives, travel, buy motorcycles and expensive houses in the mountains filled with oodles of breakable stuff.
It is not those without children I ridicule. Honestly, whether someone has a kid or not does not affect my perception of them. However, grown people who are such big babies that they need an online posting board to wine when someone across the frickin country has a baby which they will never meet, now that I find amusing and fun to go and laugh at! Really, for all of their spare time and money, those that label themselves "childfree" seem to talk about children more than actual parents do.
Posted by: Elle at Dec 12, 2004 11:14:46 PM
Elle, you said what I meant much more gracefully than I did. (BTW, it's whine-just be careful b/c A up above likes to pick on spelling! ;-) )
Posted by: Abby at Dec 12, 2004 11:19:33 PM
I participate in a parenting board where a childfree troll showed up and stayed. (It's a board with a no-ban policy.) He occasionally had witty or interesting things to say, but for the most part did not do much to represent the "childfree" community in any way I would appreciate if I had chosen not to have kids. See, here's the thing, CFers: I do not paint all childfree people with the same brush. But I've visited the online communities (the Brats board, the weightlessdog site), and if you are a member of the online childfree community, you're tarred by the company you keep, especially when people in your community make hateful (not merely intolerant, but vitriolically hateful) statements and no one in the community calls them on them.
I have plenty of childfree friends in real life. None of them participate in "childfree" organizations in any formal way. They use their free time and extra income to do stuff -- martial arts, artistic pursuits, political activism, work, whatever -- and that's where they devote their time and energy. So I know very well that there are plenty of childfree adults who don't hate children. Who have a LIFE. But you'd never guess it from the online CF communities I've seen.
And you know something weird? I am around kids all DAY -- I'm a mom and we go to playgrounds and kid restaurants and kid museum exhibits and kid this and kid that, yet in a YEAR I don't run into the number of obnoxious kids that the average CF ranter seems to see in a day. Most of the kids I meet are pretty well behaved. Maybe I just live in a more civilized part of the country (a blue state, if you're wondering), but I prefer the theory that the gods know that some folks like nothing better than a chance to rant about horrible kids, and so they send plenty their way.
Posted by: Naomi at Dec 12, 2004 11:22:15 PM
Only when you attempt to insult me, Abby. Otherwise it matters not at all. ;)
Posted by: A. at Dec 12, 2004 11:22:37 PM
Naomi --
As a rule, you can't call people on the BRATS! page itself. You have to register with the discussion board and then start a thread. Also, it's a hellish thing, because then you've got the insane psychotic people who believe their day is ruined the INSTANT a child crosses their path bleating on about some perfectly well-behaved child that happened to, I don't know, accidentally brush against them in a crowded store.
There are plenty of intelligent people on the BRATS! board with perfectly acceptable rants. One just reads them and avoids the idiotic posts. A better indicator is often the Childfree LiveJournal Community (to which I do belong). We even have parents there who post on the atrocities. Being a "breeder" isn't about how many children you have or what you do to get them...it's a mentality that should be squashed. That women are only incubators and they should have many, many children just in case, y'know, Momma backs the SUV over 6 month old Junior or Daddy leaves 2 year old Precious in the locked car on an August afternoon for 4 hours. I've known PARENTS with many children. I've known BREEDERS with one. It's...oh, it's very hard to explain.
Julie appears to have the money, time, and proper attitude towards raising a child. Therefore, she should have one. Really, how she gets there is irrelevant in the bigger scheme of things. I don't agree with fertility treatments when there are so many neglected kids who could use homes, but damn, no one should be able to stop a woman who has the means to do it if she wants to. (The attitude of some childfree "YES ABORTIONS NO IVF" is hypocritical to my way of thinking. I don't like abortions either, but again...same thing.
As for me, I'm childfree because children do not spark a maternal instinct in me. I am not the most emotionally stable person, and I would make a horrible mother. Therefore, I am content to sit back and leave the babymaking to the rest of you. Should my biological clock ever begin ticking, I will adopt. I'm not too...thrilled by what I've read about pregnancy so far (I'm currently sweating with a buddy of mine through her second one) so I just won't.
Posted by: A. at Dec 12, 2004 11:32:02 PM
"Julie appears to have the money, time, and proper attitude towards raising a child. Therefore, she should have one."
I think that this comment pretty much says it all as to why you and other childfree people bother many of us. I'm not presuming to say if you should have a child or not. Why should you pass judgement on Julie's fitness to have one? That's a lot of arrogance there.
Posted by: Abby at Dec 12, 2004 11:40:25 PM
I'm not passing judgment. I'm complimenting.
My goodness, Abby. Could we have a little MORE bitterness in this comment thread, please?
Posted by: A. at Dec 12, 2004 11:52:27 PM
No bitterness, a question. Why should you pass judgement on Julie's fitness to have a child?
Posted by: Abby at Dec 12, 2004 11:55:42 PM
Again with the "passing judgment" phrase. I think we have an insurmountable case of poTAYto poTAHto here.
If no one ever passed judgment on anyone's fitness to have a child, more children would die of neglect or other hideous, preventable causes. Many people are not fit to have children, which is why we have Family Services, the judicial system, and a variety of other authorities.
A question for you: Why does it bug you so much that some random Internet person Internet commented on some other Internet person's fitness to have a child?
Perspective in all things.
Posted by: A. at Dec 13, 2004 12:02:07 AM
It bugs me b/c I've been following Julie's blog for a while, and commenting on and off. My heart pretty much skipped a couple of beats when I read that Charlie had been born much earlier then was expected, and was in a NICU (which as a nurse I will tell you is an absolutly draining place to be-just read this blog) far away from home. I'm not Julie's friend-most of us are not, and have never even met her, but we care about her and Charlie and Paul. And for people to come over from sites that advocate childlessness and judge her fitness to parent or procreate...it's just wrong, as my best friend says.
Posted by: Abby at Dec 13, 2004 12:17:17 AM
That's my beef with cfers as well, Abby. Because, you know, women and mothers don't have ENOUGH judgement passed on them, right? Because either you're too young, too old, didn't try long enough, tried for too long, didn't adopt, did adopt, used IVF, used drugs, smokes, don't have enough money, work too many hours, put your kids in daycare, hire a nanny, stay home and "live off someone", breastfeed, don't breastfeed, too single, rocky marriage, lesbian, gay, mentally disabled, and the list goes on and on and on. And of course every asshat ready to judge has pages and pages of judgemental studies and statistics designed to in fact help NO ONE and malign women and mothers and parents and make them feel like shit for the thankless task they do everyday of their lives.
What's with all the judgement, I say? There is good and bad in all people. Some of the finest people I know were raised by some of the worst. And some of the worst people I know, raised by some of the best! We're all human; perspective in all things indeed. Good parenting does not good children make. It just doesn't work out that way unfortunately. Here's what goes down: parents do the goddamn best they can, and kids will all be little brats sometimes, and we all grow up eventually or die trying, and eventually we all die but before then, maybe we reproduce. Other than that we just fumble along, trying to figure this "life" thing out. Meanwhile, people will stand around and judge you, judge everything you do. They will stand on the sidelines and complain about your choices, and wave statistics in front of your face, and malign you and your choices in order to make themselves feel better and more superior about their own. There are people out there just waiting to put you down in order to validate themselves. You don't leave them behind in Kindergarten, as you might suspect. And the worst thing you can do, the very worst thing, is to fall into this trap of judgement, and say "oh yeah but at least I'm not on welfare!" and "oh yeah but at least I was married/am married!" Because somewhere down there, there's someone leaving an abusive husband on welfare doing the best she can, raising her kids, and she's getting shat upon every time she turns around by everyone else higher up on the totem pole of judgement, while her abusive ex is promoted at work. Mothers just don't get ahead, they just don't, every study will tell you, it's one big sacrifice, and it's a labor of love, a thankless and underappreciated occupation, and it's not for everybody! And it's damn hard. But the last thing that will help anybody is judgement.
That's what I don't get about cfers. They claim so much to hate the judgement they receive, to hate being stereotyped. But the only other groups I can think of who are so full of hate, violent degrading images and languages, that relies so much on stereotypes and judgement, are racists.
Posted by: Elle at Dec 13, 2004 12:25:43 AM
Elle, well said! I might add homophobes to your list.
Posted by: Abby at Dec 13, 2004 12:28:55 AM
Oh geeze why would some basterd waste his time being mean to you? I've not read all your comments so I don't know what was said by the meanies but, just so you know...
Some CF people really do care about kids and moms. I got here because a friend of mine was having problems and was reading her blog which had something about your blog and then your blog was so funny and sad and real that I just started to care about you and charlie. I don't want kids b/c I think I'd be a really terrible mom, but I love kids and I think people who want to be good parents should be. I cried when I heard you and charlie were ok. I don't care how you got charlie, I don't tell people what they should and shouldn't do when it comes to preg. or birth or adoption. I'm so sorry, every time I hear you, Zeroboss, or some other blogger going off because some CF person was mean and rude and just plain wrong I cringe. I came here to learn what my friend might have to face one day, and you taught me a lot that I didn't know. I only wish you and charlie the best and I hope that when someone says that they are CF that you don't immedately think of that sick basterd who was mean to you.
Posted by: achromic at Dec 13, 2004 1:10:10 AM
OMG, I just visited that website. What an awful place. I've never heard such bad things said about tiny little humans and the people that love them. I respect their right to say it, blah blah blah, but it really makes me wonder how much anger one has to have in the world to post a message there about tiny defenseless humans.
Julie, please know that the support and love you have from people is true and genuine, even from ttd (trying to decide) and admittedly baby-phobic people like me. Wishing you the best.
Posted by: eve at Dec 13, 2004 1:16:10 AM
Here's what Julie's commenting on:
http://www.fred.net/turtle/kids/kidrants.shtml?start=44872&count=15
Just scroll down a bit and you'll see the comment.
Why do people pass judgement on a situation that has NOTHING to do with them at all. NOTHING.
Julie - ignore it.
Hugs and kisses to the three of you!!
Posted by: Liz at Dec 13, 2004 1:17:30 AM
Just because "A." obviously didn't read the whole post, entering a bogus URL will make it so the email address doesn't show under you name on your post. She has it set up to show the email address if there is no URL, if a URL is listed then the name links to that.
The only person who would see your email address would be Julie. No bots. No spiders. No hate mail from any of the readers of this site. That's all.
Posted by: Celina at Dec 13, 2004 1:39:56 AM
LADIES (and/or gents, as the case may be) ...
it seems to me, you might maybe please could take this offline. or at least, need you be continuing your discussion here, on the blog of charlie's mom? couldn't we be spending a little time in this tiny bit of cyberspace being here for julie, et al, and save the discussions for another place and time? just a thought.
julie, he's delightful.
Posted by: anon at Dec 13, 2004 1:53:19 AM
Hi Julie, Paul & Charlie
I hope that you are all ok, and that CHarlie is feeling miles better - he is such a little fighter. Sorry to see that these CF asshats are using you as a punching bag - ignore them, they aren't worth the time.
All the very best wishes to all of you, hope Charlie is back off CPAP very soon and that you get to go home.
Hugs to you all
Posted by: jen at Dec 13, 2004 4:20:27 AM
Hey Julie!
I found your site a while ago, and I was wondering if you'd had your baby yet. I check your page, and egads! You have. Congratulations! Hopefully you will all be home soon.
As has been said so many times already, ignore the rabid CFers. They obviously have too much time and energy to contribute towards their neuroses.
Posted by: Siobhan at Dec 13, 2004 8:09:39 AM
Julie, I'm so sorry about that. As several commenters have already said, about half of that board is used for legitimate rants, while the other half is just, well, people spewing vitriol.
As for you people from the Childfree site... you have no souls if you cannot see what a gift any child is.
Um...I'm sorry, but WTF??? I do NOT like children. I don't want children. I have no maternal instincts whatsoever. I'd hate to think that this makes me "soulless." It's just the way I am. I can't help it, any more than you can help your maternal instincts, your desire for children.
Please don't pass judgment on an entire lifestyle just because of a few loud jerkoffs. Every group has its assholes; that doesn't mean that the entire group follows suit.
Posted by: Whitters at Dec 13, 2004 9:44:30 AM
Julie - I'm sorry there's fighting going on in your blog about this.
Some CFers are evil cunts. Some aren't. ok. Out of the system.
I'm just glad you and Charlie are doing ok. He's a beautiful little one, to say the least. I'm sure you and Paul are already amazing parents. Your strength through all the shit you've been through is admirable, and so it your determination for little Charlie to come into this world.
I can't wait to read more updates on Charlie and you.
by the way, if you want to fight and argue, there must be better places to do it. Like the WWE or something.
Posted by: AnarchyByDay at Dec 13, 2004 10:46:05 AM
Julie:
Glad Batmom and Bat are getting on great.
That said, I have some thoughts on those particular persons who think couples who pursue adoption are doing the world a favor, but couples who chose to pursue ART are icky. Adoptive parents are just like other parents; "breeders," if you will. Placing us in a special category still paints us as the Other.
We had our own special, selfish reasons for adopting. We didn't adopt because we wanted to save the world from an Ehrlich-like population crisis. We didn't adopt to stop world hunger. We adopted because we wanted to be parents. I wanted to be a mother -- a puke-stained, red-eyed, sleep-deprived mama. Yup, totally selfish. No noble motivation here.
Our choice to stop pursuing ART was personal. Julie's choice to pursue ART was personal. It sucks to have a body that feels broken, because you can't get/stay pregnant. Medical decisions are personal. Period. The ideaology that condemns ART, while philosophically consistent, is not emotionally pragmatic, especially when you are the one being told your plumbing doesn't work.
Modern technology is a wonderful thing. It would take a callous person to insist a cancer patient or diabetic forego the latest treatment options in order to cull the population. Reproductively challenged folks should not be expected to single-handedly take on the same.
Couples pursuring adoption and couples pursuing ART have the same motivation -- to be parents. Our routes just took a different course. If Julie's icky, then me, too!
Okay, that's about all I have to say about that.
Posted by: Erin at Dec 13, 2004 11:29:54 AM
Julie,
Charlie is absolutely beautiful. Sending prayers your way for his continued strength. Hopefully there will not be as many steps back as there are forward! It's amazing that two weeks have already gone by! Thinking of you all and hoping that sometime soon you will be coming home!
Posted by: Jen at Dec 13, 2004 11:40:56 AM
Just one more comment about the childfree people. I read on their site that they feel society gives favors and benefits unfairly to breeders who waste resources. Don't they know that economic growth is dependent in many ways upon population growth?
Homes appreciate in value because a growing population increases the need for homes - good old supply and demand. How would a childfree couple feel about buying their home at one price and selling at half that amount, as opposed to twice?
Also, when the government issues bonds it borrows from today's citizens and the future generation pays back the money - a larger workforce and a broader tax base makes this possible, interest included.
If anyone is geting a "cheaper" ride it's the childfree. Prices on homes and cars are kept down by the fact that most people have children and can't afford to spend more money on these big ticket items. By not having children they have that extra income freed up to live a more comfortable lifestyle on an income that really could supoprt a family. That's their choice and I respect it, but don't turn the tables around and say that families with children are getting a unfair breaks.
Posted by: Just Me at Dec 13, 2004 11:46:40 AM
ranting about poorly-behaved children **in your own airspace** is one thing, but attacking someone you've never met, whose child you've neither seen nor heard, is just low. to the CF contingent choosing to show some class, thank you. to those who would rather behave like schoolyard bullies, may you find something more productive to contribute your energies to.
Posted by: wix at Dec 13, 2004 12:04:51 PM
