a little pregnant: How to alienate half your readers with one simple sentence

06/28/2005

How to alienate half your readers with one simple sentence

Charlie cries it out.

If you've been reading for a while, you might recall that when left to his own devices, Charlie takes naps of no more than 47 minutes in duration. I asked Charlie's pediatrician if there was any help for it, and she shook her head grimly. I consulted Weissbluth, who warns that children who take short naps are less adaptable, less attentive, and more likely to mow down their kindergarten class in a devastating hail of gunfire, but also says — without so much as an apology for destroying my fragile dreams — that "you cannot make short nappers into long nappers." And then I asked Charlie's neonatologist, who said, "Oh, that's easy."

"When you put him down," she said, "set a timer for an hour. Then go outside where you can't hear him, and don't go in until the timer rings." Then she paused, to give her next words special weight. "And do not," she said sternly, "take the baby monitor with you."

We started that day. At the end of the hour, when I went back inside, Charlie was just winding down. Hearing his complaints diminish, I planned to wait five more minutes before going in to see him. It didn't take even that long: before five minutes were up, Charlie was back asleep, and didn't wake again for another hour.

Since then we haven't looked back. We've made some adjustments; if he wakes much before the magical 45-minute mark, it's generally because he's hungry or has rolled over and can't get comfortable again, so one of us goes in and soothes him back to sleep, usually without difficulty. I no longer set a timer, having developed a sense of how long is long enough. And I seldom go where I can't hear him.

I think it's supposed to bother me to hear him cry. I know it bothers more experienced mothers than I. And I've heard more than once about parents who are determined to try, but crumble in the face of prolonged howling. I get the distinct impression that hearing him cry and not going to him should make me feel like my heart's being ripped, still beating, from my chest (heaving, natch, with sobs).

But I have to tell you it doesn't. I know he's not hurt, ill, hungry, soiled, or wet. He's physically fine. And though he's unhappy, it's transient and, I believe, superficial. See, I don't interpret those premature-end-of-nap cries as "Help me, I'm alone and frightened and I'm worried you'll never come back." I hear it more as, "Hey, here I am, ready to play! Hey! It's time to wake up! Heeeeeeey! Big lady-shaped person! C'mere! I've had enough sleep!" To which my response must necessarily be, "The hell you have."

About 80% of the time I'm right. Most of the time, after 10-15 minutes of low-level complaining, he settles back in for a long continuation of his nap, for a total of anywhere from two to two-and-a-half hours, a reasonable length by anyone's definition. The rest of the time, I let him round out the prescribed hour, then go to him in his crib. He stops crying immediately, and is invariably delighted to see me — not heartbroken, not inconsolable, not betrayed — just as he is when he's managed that longer nap. The difference is, when he's slept the longer stretch, I'm delighted to see him, too.

I am only too happy to trade those 10-15 minutes of crying for the sleep he certainly needs and that mutual delight. It seems like a fair exchange.

I'm well aware that people who oppose crying it out might accuse me of a lack of empathy or warn that I'm jeopardizing Charlie's trust. The only answer I have to that is to say that I do care about Charlie's feelings, passionately. It's just that I care about his obvious need for solid sleep and the collective sanity of the family a little bit more.

But then I never thought I'd be the kind of parent who couldn't leave a baby to soothe himself. I didn't feel a visceral resistance to doing so, and I never thought it was categorically cruel to hear your child cry and yet not respond. So far I see it as a means to greater household harmony, one I hope will be only temporarily necessary. After all, I don't enjoy hearing him cry...it's just that in this case it doesn't gut me.

Am I damaging our boy or our relationship? Do me a favor: if you think so, don't tell me. I won't hear it anyway. I'll be in the yard, out of earshot.

Posted by Julie at 12:15 PM in Charles in charge, Mama drama | Permalink

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Comments (302)

Yes, yes, and yes. This is EXACTLY how I feel about letting my children cry it out. Perfectly stated, and good for you. Now brace yourself for the onslaught of you are making him miserable, unhappy, untrusting, and a serial killer. But I, the mother of three future maladjusted sociopaths, pats you on the back --- good for you for doing what works for YOU and CHARLIE (and Paul, too.)

Posted by: Brandee at Jun 28, 2005 12:22:05 PM

I look at it this way - the kid is not going to remember any of this. Which is how I rationalize alot these days.

Posted by: juliejulie at Jun 28, 2005 12:25:09 PM

Ever feel like the universe it tryigg to tell you something? I ddo. This is like the third or fourth thing in a couple of days about crying it out to be featured in my regular Internet reads.
if you had asked me prior to a few months ago I would hae toldd you how awfu i thought letting the cry it out is, etc etc. The my great nnapper forgot howand thhings have just gotten worse. It has caused economic harm because I can't get my work aaccomplished, as well as emotional harm because I am so fried and there IS that whole gunning down of half the kindergarten thing. Right now, it's hotter than the goddamn surfaacee of the goddamn sun here and it's really taking it out of her, so she's napping like a champ. When (please God please) this heat wave breaks, we are trying the ""let her cry" thing.

Posted by: AmyinMotown at Jun 28, 2005 12:27:04 PM

Mothers need to do what works for them. Crying it out never worked for me. I tried it once or twice, but with my son it was a contest of wills - he would. not. stop. crying. no matter how long I waited. Once in the middle of the night he cried for an hour before falling asleep (no, nothing was wrong with him, I was trying to get him to go back to sleep in his crib instead of coming to bed with mommy and daddy) and then he woke up after an hour and started crying AGAIN. I gave up all attempts to modify his sleep habits after that because I couldn't handle it. So now I have a two year old who sleeps with us through the whole night. At least I managed to wean him somewhere around 21 months.

Posted by: Mare_Imbrium at Jun 28, 2005 12:32:00 PM

I postponed the crying it out for AGES for fear that letting him be that upset made me an insensitive mother. I figured it was something he would outgrow with time. It took me almost a year of 3 or 4 nightly wakeup calls before I finally was so exhausted I tried it.

And honestly? If my son could speak, I think he would be saying "Thank you thank you thank you. I was so damn tired, but I didn't know what to do about it!" He has never slept so soundly - or been so well rested during the day - as he has since the CIO started. At bedtime now, he protests for less than a minute, then gratefully passes out. It has made a world of difference to ALL of our attitudes.

Obviously, you have to feel comfortable with your parenting style, and it doesn't work for everyone. But those who say it is akin to child abuse? They don't understand the overwhelming torture No Sleep can become. To both the parent AND the child.

Groove on.

Posted by: Mete at Jun 28, 2005 12:34:41 PM

I let Lissa CIO to get her out of our bed at 9 months. The first night she WAILED for 23 minutes straight and fell asleep. The second night she cried low for about 8 and she's had nary a problem since. Every now and then for a nap or for bed time she cries (as she heads to her toddler bed because she knows when I say go it's time to go) but it lasts no longer than it takes for me to get down the hall.

I know a lot of people who are "against" crying it out and say "don't let your two month old cry it out it's cruel" Well yeah a two month old, that would be a BIT cruel. But a baby who is starting to get some idea of what they WANT vs. what the NEED. i/e mine who just WANTED to keep sleeping with mommy and daddy when what she NEEDED was to go to sleep in her own bed. Then I say CIO is perfectly fine and appropriate.

It sounds like Charlie has a distinct difference between what he WANTS and what he NEEDS.

Posted by: Nopenname at Jun 28, 2005 12:36:27 PM

Eventually you do what works. This works, so GO FOR IT!!! A person has to sleep sometime.

Posted by: lorrie at Jun 28, 2005 12:36:52 PM

My son didn't nap for more than 17 minutes at a time until the age of 5 months, when I bought Dr. Ferber's book and implemented his plan. I grabbed my iPod and a timer and listened to Green Day full blast until the time was up, crying the entire time. It was the BEST decision I ever made. Once he began to nap regularly (three times a day at first) he went from being a grumpy, whiny baby into the happiest most content baby ever. Now, at 21 months of age, he happily goes into his crib at naptime, plays and jabbers for a while, then drifts off to sleep. Same at bedtime. It takes me all of 3 minutes to put him to bed. That one week of hell was well worth it. I'm convinced he's the happy, well-adjusted kid he is today because I taught him to go to sleep on his own. And, I never had to hit anyone again who said, "Can't you just nap when he naps?"

Posted by: Amy at Jun 28, 2005 12:38:15 PM

I CIO with my oldest (didn't need to with the second), and what you said about the interpretation of the cries are EXACTLY what I felt. I wish I had thought to interpret it differently because it was hard. But it worked and she is a very happy 3 year old now who sleeps well.

Isn't it true with sleep cycles that 45 minutes is when you reach REM sleep? So if he was waking up, he was never really getting a good nap. He must have been a bear. I think you did a great thing for him, teaching him to put himself back to sleep so he could get what his body needs. Secondarily, I think you did a great thing for yourself by viewing it the way you did and also earning yourself 2 hours of "free" time, which we all know means "laundry" time. Enjoy it!

Posted by: Em at Jun 28, 2005 12:38:47 PM

I maintain one thing about babies and sleep. At some point all parents get to the place where its us or them. You chose us - a wise move. In a short time all the crying will stop and you will be truly amazed.

Posted by: bridget at Jun 28, 2005 12:43:08 PM

You're doing just great. I had to do CIO with both my girls, and I love Weissbluth's book also. My youngest has just started sleeping better at night (and CIO was harder with her b/c she was more stubborn, so it took more days and I started to doubt). I feel so much better these days now that she sleeps at night. I think we're both happier.

Posted by: Laurie C at Jun 28, 2005 12:55:37 PM

Bravissima, Julie, bravissima!!!! My son (now 17 mos old) has generally been pretty easy to send off to dream land. On the rare occasions that he is fussy, I determine that he is fine otherwise, and then let him CIO. Nope, didn't read any books or get great advice from the pediatrician. Just let my fear guide me - that fear of having a child that needs an hour long routine before he can sleep.

Be happy with the sleeping boy - it is but one of many small battles with Charlie that you will need to win. And you've started out marvelously!

Posted by: TracyB at Jun 28, 2005 1:02:13 PM

I'm the type of person who firmly believes in doing whatever is best for you and your baby.

Getting excited and judgemental over letting Charlie cry it out??? So not worth it.

Glad to hear things are beginning to work out in the sleeping department.

Posted by: Sherry at Jun 28, 2005 1:04:52 PM

Yep, what they all said. My guy sucked at naps and nighttime sleeping until we CIO'd at 8 months. Now at 19 months, I read him a story, sing a song or two and then he, of his own volition, pats me on the back, says night-night and points to his crib. I love that! And he sleeps 11 hours a night, takes two two-hour naps a day and generally loves to be around his parents but is not inconsolable when we leave. Somehow, I suspect he has managed to overcome his abandonment issues created by my inhumane need to have him (and me) sleep.

Sounds like you and Charlie have struck a good deal...

Posted by: Robinr at Jun 28, 2005 1:07:50 PM

Hasn't he been a bit of a screamer from the get-go?
I can see why it wouldn't devestate you -- and I don't think it should. I think (like you care) that fussy babies are best handled in sensible ways, without being overly emotional about it.
I say well done.

Posted by: blackbird at Jun 28, 2005 1:18:01 PM

FINALLY! Thank God, Julie. I don't enjoy telling people what to do, but remember back in the sleepapalozza post? When I "strongly suggested" you "find a way" to "eliminate some of the many night feedings"? YES YES! That's what I meant.

Once I braced myself to let Colic Boy CIO, well, life got a darn lot better. He was 4 months old, and went from being world's worst baby (just cuz he was tired) to world's most cheerful, sunny baby. Still stubborn as hell, but now as a 2 year old, I have a sunny (stubborn) kid who goes down for a 2 hr afternoon nap and an 11 hour (no wake up) night wihout a protest, happily, saying "Bye bye mama! bye bye dada!" when we leave the room and shut off the light and close the door. Who wakes up singing the ABC song. Who loves his bed, says, "mine! My Bed!"

Yeah. Worth it. :)

Good for you.

Colicmommy
p.s.--after the first night, which was a little hard, colicmommy and colicdaddy also really didn't feel too much angst when the crying went on. Kind of like, what's got to be done, got's to be done. Kind of like....exactly what YOU said.

Posted by: colicmommy-1 at Jun 28, 2005 1:21:04 PM

Thank god somebody has some sense around here.

Posted by: S at Jun 28, 2005 1:24:38 PM

After being accused of child abuse for letting my 2nd son cry it out--after 8 months of severe sleep deprivation that resulted in/exacerbated post partum-depression, no less--all I can say is, AMEN!! Interesting that my accuser, who took time out of her day to send a hateful e-mail to a mom seeking help for depression, going so far to reach around into her ass and pull out the statement that my son's 14-hour sleep stretch that first night was concrete evidence that he'd been traumatized, was an attachment parent. You know, "gentle" parenting? All about kindness and trust and intuition? Except when it comes to other mothers shifting away from the herd by even the tiniest hair.

I knew at the time that this was absolutely the right thing, for my son, for my sanity and health, for my other, older child. I still feel no regret but still scratch my head at that mom's need to be so cruel.

Again, Julie, AMEN. Thank you for stating this so clearly. Moms who use CIO--and it can be modified and done in various ways, especially if you read the books on it and not the alarmist rhetoric on the Internet--aren't out there to be cruel. We aren't heartless. We are just like just about every other mom; out to do what's best for our families. And those families include moms, too.

Posted by: Toni at Jun 28, 2005 1:27:03 PM

There is nothing wrong with letting your baby CIO. We did it with our daughter and she slept soundly all night (and took 2-3 hour naps during the day) by the time she was 9 months old. She just turned 2 and she is still a champion sleeper.

Good for you, Julie!

Posted by: Leah at Jun 28, 2005 1:29:02 PM

My pediatrician recommended the same thing for my son when I was having trouble getting him to sleep at night. He said to set the timer for an hour and if he wasn't asleep to try feeding/changing/writing checks for thousands of dollars for another hour then try again.

When he cried, I felt guilty because (and it took me a long time to realize this) I was afraid of what other people would think. "Here she is, sitting on the couch watching Bill Kurtis on A&E while her child shrieks in despair", but I never believed I was actually doing anything wrong.

Now that he is three, he goes to bed in his own room at a decent hour and understands that he can't keep waltzing out all night: Mommy means business when she says it's time for bed.

I'm hoping this actually means something important one day, because it's one of the few things I've done with my kid that I'm positive was "right".

Posted by: Miss D at Jun 28, 2005 1:29:07 PM

I resisted CIO at first, but when it started taking me 45 minutes to get my son to bed at night, I had no other choice. Our feelings on it are that it was the hardest thing we've ever had to do, but it is one of the best things we've ever done FOR him. Naps can still be tricky cause he's never napped in his crib much, but bedtime is cake....he'll relapse now and then and scream for a while, but most nights, it's jammies, brushed teeth, story, snuggles and then bed. And he won't make a sound, or just fuss for a few minutes.....and he goes straight through for 11-12 hours. the only bumps in the road come when he's sick or teething.

Glad you found something that works for you. It bothers me when he cries sometimes, but I keep telling myself that I'm doing all of it FOR him. That helps.

Posted by: beachgal at Jun 28, 2005 1:30:35 PM

Oh, I had my cousin start the CIO! It was so hard, my trio are 21 months and they were all getting up 2 - 3 times a night (count that as mommy got no sleep for 2 years!) Now Anna still gets up (she's special needs, down syndrome, so no matter what people tell me I just can't let her CIO.) She gets up a few times a night but that feels like a piece of cake compared to all three getting up!

With Emma, she "got it" right away, no looking back. John is a little more stubborn and he could easily cry for hours on end, fall asleep and be back up an hour later for more. It took him 8 or 9 weeks to get the hang of it!! And he still does wake up occasionally and definitely needs to be rocked to sleep. But if we didn't do CIO then I probably wouldn't be here, writing this note, I'd be dead or in an insane asylum!

Really, as you said, I know that they're not hurt. They are vying for my attention and they do so so so so much better if I let them go, let them sleep whether they like it or not! Before, they were all miserable with getting up so much. Now that they've learned (for the most part) they are much happier. And I'm much happier!! And when Anna sleeps through the night I'm going to have a party!!

Jane

Posted by: jane at Jun 28, 2005 1:36:23 PM

I say whatever works. My first daughter was fine with CIO. Well, not FINE but you know... My second would literally shit herself. So I opted not to do it with her. I mean, crying is one thing but literally pooping your pants out of frustration is entirely something else. At least to me. I know I like to be changed IMMEDIATELY when that happens to me. ROFLOL

Posted by: Ninotchka at Jun 28, 2005 1:39:46 PM

You know, I'm not a CIO fan. I wouldn't be comfortable with it. But Charlie ain't my kid so I say if it works for you, more power to you!

I do get really, really, really tired of people who insist it is the only thing that works though. I think it is great that it works for you. I think it sounds like you have everything in your home under control. I would just caution those of you who have had it work for you to not push your ideas on friends who are having a hard time but who don't want to go that route. If someone is really looking hard for solutions that will let them get more sleep and be more sane but are insistant that they don't want to CIO please don't push them. Those of us who are opposed to CIO for ourselves get a little sick of the constant barrage from parents who insist it is the only solution for everyone just becuase it worked for them.

Not a slam on you Julie. I know you aren't pushing anything on anyone and I'm happy you and Charlie are both less sleep deprived these days.

Posted by: Amy at Jun 28, 2005 1:42:08 PM

Posted by: Ninotchka at Jun 28, 2005 1:42:23 PM

I read the whole post, wondering when I'd get to the sentence that would totally alienate me.

But I'm not sure you included it in your post.

(P.S. Whatever works, lady.)

Posted by: Maria at Jun 28, 2005 1:45:24 PM

I hear you Julie. I resisted CIO for so long. I felt it was fundamentally wrong to let your baby cry. I just could not do it. Until my daughter was 19 months and still not sleeping thru the night. I had tried everything I tell you everything and nothing would work. I was so incredibly tired. I worked (still do) full time and one day I noticed I was I was falling asleep at the wheel. That was all it took.

I tried it and it was torture for me. I won't lie, I was miserable and cried along with her, but oh the bliss, when after 2 days she slept the whole night.

I wish I did not have to do it. But I don't regreat a thing.

Do what works for you and your family. Live and let live, that is what I say.

Posted by: Libby at Jun 28, 2005 1:45:32 PM

I got pregnant at 18 and didnt know there was another way than the let-them-cry-if-you-know-they-are-physically-fine napping technique. So I used it, and didn't feel bad, or guilty for NOT feeling bad until months later when someone said "Oh. That was Bad."

Whatever. My son is 10 now and we have great relationship and he is well adapted AND easily adjusts to new situations. And he only opened fire on his kindergarten class once.

Needless to say, if I ever make it to motherhood again, I'll be using the same technique, and ignoring the opposition right alongside you.

Posted by: Z at Jun 28, 2005 1:56:57 PM

CIO certainly worked for us. Very hard at first, but really so is potty training, teaching them that sometimes they have to walk and dress and feed themselves (I'm talking toddlers, here not infants), and teaching them to wait their turn.

CIO is kinda the first step on that road to independance, and no, it's not the only way or always the right way but they do need to learn to put themselves to sleep and to entertain themselves.

Posted by: liz at Jun 28, 2005 2:04:36 PM

This is the more experienced mom telling you the only reason the kind of crying you are talking about bothers me is because it is loud and wakes me up or makes it so I can't hear the dialouge of my favortie Lifetime movie. My kids are 13, 11, 7 and 3. I have let them all cry it out at various points. None of them seem to hate me any more than they should.

Posted by: Lisa V at Jun 28, 2005 2:06:15 PM

So, maybe you should reconsider editing your post: "I don't consider myself AP"? As there are at least a couple of things that have changed. This is proof that in the way of parenting there's no definites. No, "I'll never do this" kinda crap because sooner or later statements we've made in the past come back to bite us in the ass.

I find it interesting how maybe a month or two ago, the word "attachment" was the buzzword in the new mommy blog world. How quickly that changes... Here we are a few weeks later and suddenly more and more mommies jump in the CIO bandwaggon.

I am not saying it's wrong. I am just wondering if that's what's "in" at the moment.

Posted by: happy at Jun 28, 2005 2:07:53 PM

Now, I am not a parent, but I have a LOT of baby experience, so you can take or leave this.

I am a huge proponent of CIO, especially after seeing the negative effects on children whose parents were categorically AGAINST CIO. See, we all forget that picking up and trying to sooth a child EVERY time s/he cries also teaches the child that s/he is in control and it later becomes a huge test of wills in those toddler years when that "NO" word is learned. Not to mention, it pisses me off that women who let their children CIO get charecterized in the same vein as women who neglect their children.

Anecdotally. My mother let both my brother and I CIO before anyone labelled it such, and we are both fine. I was an incredibly colicky baby, and the doctor told her to turn on a record (ha!) or the TV and turn it up. I'm well adjusted, love my parents, haven't gone postal, and am a contributing member of society. And before anyone decides attribute my being a lesbian to being forced to CIO, my brother is also fine, top of his class in college, and engaged...to a woman.

Congrats Julie. Enjoy the sleep while you can. He'll keep you up for other reasons in the teenage years!

Posted by: kim at Jun 28, 2005 2:09:38 PM

Anyone ever watch the Super Nanny? She makes the parents let the kid CIO and by the end of the show(in reality it's been about a week) her tactics are working. You go girl! I tried to let my son CIO but his daddy would never invest in any headphones. He slept in our bed off and on until he was almost 5. He has just turn 6 and has been sleeping in his bed since the summer before he started kindergarten. He does fine now sleeping by himself and napping but I don't think he'll ever like it. But hey I am the parent after all!! And I have never slept better!

Some advice my pediatrician gave me when my son was sleeping in the bed with us. She said the most important thing is that it doesn't affect your personal life. If it doesn't and the child is a year or older it really won't hurt anything. And one last thing is they won't sleep with you forever!

Posted by: DirksMom at Jun 28, 2005 2:09:59 PM

"I'm well aware that people who oppose crying it out might accuse me of a lack of empathy or warn that I'm jeopardizing Charlie's trust. The only answer I have to that is to say that I do care about Charlie's feelings, passionately. It's just that I care about his obvious need for solid sleep and the collective sanity of the family a little bit more."

I couldn't agree with this more -- and not just on the sleep issue. There are a whole host of issues (eating, sharing, potty training) that require a parent to balance the wants of the child (e.g., "why can't I eat cookies for dinner?") with the well-being of the family/child. Sleep is usually the first, but by no means the last, time that this dynamic is tested. You sound (to me, at least) as if you are on the right path to achieving this balance.

P.S. Congrats on getting Charlie to sleep for longer periods! In our house, it always makes for a happier child (and thus, a happier parent) when there have been long naps and good nightime sleeps.

Posted by: Amy at Jun 28, 2005 2:10:31 PM

We basically stumbled to the same conclusion on our own, and everyone is happier indeed. Rule of thumb is if she wakes up crying, she's not done napping. If she wakes up cooing and playing, she's refreshed and done napping. I still can't convince my mother-in-law to accept this, and I'm especially fond of the afternoons I come home and she's pulled our napping daughter from the crib prematurely. "I just don't understand why she's so crabby today," she'll say repeatedly. "I think she's teething."

Teething. Got it. Now go home.

Posted by: CathyY at Jun 28, 2005 2:11:25 PM

If it works, do it! I tried crying it out with my daughter, and she would literally cry for an hour and then just be so upset there was no calming her down. She was the queen of the twenty minute power nap. Two naps, twenty minutes each -- and that's all I'd get the whole day. She was a great sleeper at night and never required drastic measures then, so that helped. But she did grow into longer naps. She now will sleep for two hours in the afternoon -- not sure what happened, however I suspect her undiagnosed food allergies had a huge part in her lack of napping ability when she was younger.

Posted by: Imperfect Mommy at Jun 28, 2005 2:14:00 PM

The lady-shaped person is doing a fabulous job! Babies and children (and grown-ups, for that matter) absolutely need to get enough sleep. The human body requires a certain amount of sleep, and the best thing you can do for Charlie is make sure he's getting it. Hooray for your clever neonataologist!

Posted by: Orange at Jun 28, 2005 2:14:28 PM

Here's how I see it.

Babies usually cry because they need something. They may cry because they need food, they need a dry diaper, or they need a change of scenery.

They may also cry because they need to sleep. And while I can help my baby with those other needs, I can't necessarily or always help him get the sleep he absolutely needs. That's one thing he just has to do on his own sometimes. So, if he cries for five or ten minutes before he gets the sleep he needs, so be it. I hardly think it will damage his trust in me - at least, he hasn't so far, and he wakes up from every nap with a smile on his face.

Posted by: T at Jun 28, 2005 2:17:32 PM

Now why on Earth would I want to go back and edit that post? It accurately represents how I felt at the time, a time when Charlie was a month younger, when he and I both had different needs.

Posted by: Julie at Jun 28, 2005 2:18:05 PM

A-freaking-men, Julie. I wondered if this post was coming.
I didn’t want to let my son CIO. I didn’t think I would have to. He would roll over and fall asleep on his own at 4mos. Then he went to daycare and that all. Went. To. Shit. One of the ladies there coddled him…never put him down, rocked him to sleep, picked him up at the first sign of fussing. He stopped sleeping through the night. At first we thought it was teething. Then he had night terrors. Etc etc. At 17 months we were giving him a bottle and holding him until he fell asleep in our arms usually in our bed while watching TV. He was up until 9:30 some nights. We finally had enough of it. We were arguing with each other over stupid shit because we were so exhausted. My husband was getting up 2-3 times a night. The first night CIO he cried for 30 minutes and I felt like dying. The second night he cried for 5 minutes and I was astonished it was that simple. Third night – he stopped crying before we even made it down the stairs. He cries (annoyed cries, not upset) when we bring him into his room now, but he settles right down. I think he needed the boundary of the crib. He needed to not have a choice because as we all know…babies usually don’t choose to go to sleep when there’s fun to be had. Last night he cried for about 30 seconds and then passed out. I’m hoping he goes back to just rolling over and falling asleep soon…that was nice.

Posted by: reenie at Jun 28, 2005 2:27:54 PM

Hey, not that you need it, but - you knew I'd have your back on this one, right?

I would suggest you wait until he's off the Zantac before you move on to my patented whiskey teething remedy and/or the Mom Must Sleep Tonight evening Benadryl 'cocktail hour', though...

Posted by: Betsy at Jun 28, 2005 2:27:55 PM

AMEN sister. I agree with you 100%.

Posted by: kim at Jun 28, 2005 2:32:43 PM

To Happy:

I don't know that this is so much "trend-hopping" as a learning process, because that's precisely what parenting is. Kind of how some women envision an ideal birth--whether it be a scheduled c-section or totally natural--and find themselves in a totally different circumstance when Junior arrives on the scene.

I was very AP at the outset, until I learned to adapt to the needs of my child (which is what AP purports to be, only there are more rules involved that don't always allow for adaptability). That's what it's really about--adapting to fit the needs of the child within the larger context of a thriving, evolving family. We do a mix of parenting philosophies; I think the danger lies in letting the philosophy run the family instead of the parents, in conjunction with attending to their children's needs.

Posted by: Toni at Jun 28, 2005 2:37:34 PM

I don't have kids of my own yet, but I often babysat when I was in high school and college. I remember at one couple's house, they had an 11 month old and when it got late and they still weren't home, I put her to bed. She cried for about 10 minutes or so, but then all was silent and when I looked in, she was sound asleep.

Parents got home about 15 minutes later (there had been a bad accident and they'd been stuck in traffic) apologizing profusely for being late. "Shhhhhh," I said, "She's asleep. It was getting late so I went ahead and put her to bed a few minutes ago." They stared at me. "You put her to bed and she fell asleep?" "Well, she cried for a bit, but then she fell asleep." They looked concerned, "Did you rock her?" "Um, no, I just let her cry for a bit and then she fell asleep." Concern shifted to anger, "You let her cry?? She has to be rocked and then sometimes she takes a bottle and then we put her in her swing and...." I don't even remember the rest of this ridiculously elaborate routine that apparently normally took almost an hour. They were sure she had probably not so much fallen asleep as passed out from the trauma and terror of being "left alone." I was dumbfounded. This was not a newborn. The kid was almost a year old. It was bedtime. I put her to bed. Sometimes kid cry. Then they fall asleep. I had no idea why they thought the idea of letting a kid cry for a few minutes was cruel and it was years before I learned that there was actually a controversy over this.

Posted by: Jesse at Jun 28, 2005 2:40:47 PM

To the Amy who's anti-CIO: As a mom who has used CIO, I'd never push it on anyone who didn't need or feel comfortable with it. Just letting you know that tolerant parents *do* exist out there! And I'd expect you, similarly, not to judge my choices, particularly without knowing my individual circumstances (i.e., going 8+ months without more than 3 hours' consecutive sleep, post partum depression, an older child to care for, etc.).

It really is all about what works for you and your family.

I'd have sent you an e-mail, but you didn't leave a valid addy, so I'm posting this here.

Posted by: Toni at Jun 28, 2005 2:43:01 PM

I was like you. My daughter's crying didn't rip my heart out either. In fact, I learned after much trial and error that sometimes it was just what she needed to do in order to wind down. If I picked her up and offered her more stimulation, she'd just get MORE tired and irritable.

The thing is, babies, being pre-verbal and all, don't have a lot of options for communication. Crying is sort of the catch-all, whether they're hungry, hurting, feverish or just too damned tired.

I think this is a case where you need to throw all dissenting assvice aside and follow your instincts.

Posted by: Susy at Jun 28, 2005 2:51:14 PM

Julie, perhaps editing was the wrong word choice as much as revisit. This is why my next sentence said that nothing is ever definite in parenting and I agree with Toni. It's a learning process, we stand on one side at one point and switch to another the next.

Posted by: happy at Jun 28, 2005 2:57:38 PM

I'm puzzled why anyone would think Julie would need to edit a past post. As she points out, she and Charlie had different needs a month ago. Things change. Babies develop. Parents adapt their parenting techniques accordingly. Doesn't mean they were "wrong" in how they were doing things before, just that they're paying attention to what's going on NOW and discover new ways to respond. To me, that's not inconsistent...that's just smart.

Posted by: S at Jun 28, 2005 2:58:56 PM

I totally support your decision to let him cry it out. I don't have any kids but had a big part in raising my brother and sister and I think it's time to put common sense back into child-rearing.

It's your job to be the adult in the situation- you know best, and you know that he needs his sleep. That's what parents are there for!

Posted by: Lisa at Jun 28, 2005 2:58:58 PM

whoo hoo! Way to go Julie and Charlie!

Posted by: stephanie at Jun 28, 2005 3:13:33 PM

I was one of those moms who swore up and down I would never let him CIO. I said this up until a month ago. We now CIO. I feel bad, truely I do...but at least its a well rested kind of bad.

Posted by: Amanda at Jun 28, 2005 3:18:37 PM

One more thing- during a certain period of my childhood I would often have nightmares and frequently spent the night with the light on. I would often walk into my parents room and tell my mom that I was scared, and she would shift in bed, murmur something like, you'll be fine, go back to sleep, and I knew that no amount of pestering or whining would get her out of bed. So I would go back to my room and eventually I'd fall asleep.

It made me be an independent person, and made me develop coping mechanisms that I'm sure I still use today. I've never thought that my mother was a bad parent for not letting me climb into bed with them, instead I thank her for teaching me how to deal with my problems on my own.

Posted by: Lisa at Jun 28, 2005 3:19:29 PM

You know, parenting is all about finding what works for your family and using it, not pleasing some of the people none of the time.

I was always a fan of the Benadryl cocktail hour, until my last kid. It frickin' hypes her up, so I've lost that beloved weapon in the whole nighttime war.

Good for you for finding how to get sleep!

Posted by: Carmen at Jun 28, 2005 3:39:36 PM

To Toni who resonded to my comments

Thanks. I actually completely agree with you. I never push my views on others. I have several friends who have had CIO work really well and I would never dream of telling them not to do it. (well, I did encourage one friend who wanted to do it at 3 weeks to wait a month or two longer, she did and it worked out great). I actually wouldn't even say I am even anti-CIO. It just doesn't feel right to ME. For my child.

I just get so defensive about it because I feel that if you choose not to do it people feel like you have no right to complain about bad sleep habits or talk through other possible solutions. My sister really, really didn't want to do CIO and really felt battered into it by friends and family members. We should all be allowed to explore different solutions without feeling judged. My best friend did CIO from 4 or 5 months on and never looked back. she feels great about her decision and I am really happy that she is happy.

I saw this post prompting a bunch of..."It is the only thing that works" and I just don't think that is true. It might be the only thing that works for YOU. That doesn't mean that other methods of getting kids to sleep better don't work for other people. I think we are definitely on the same page. It is nice to know there are tolerant people on *both* sides of this issue. Unfortunatly it's the intolerant ones who usually make the most noise so it is easy to forget that.

oh, and sorry about not posting my real email. I got involved in a nasty campaign of harrasment after I made a comment that someone didn't like a while ago on a totally unrelated subject. I never post my e-mail anymore.

Posted by: Amy at Jun 28, 2005 3:40:46 PM

I'm not saying for EVERYONE (or I'll get lambasted) but I think for some (a lot) of moms, hearing someone else admit they let the baby CIO brings a sense of relief. Like, you know, when you admit that you pick your nose and then your dinner partner says "yeah I pick my nose too..."

Well, maybe not exactly like that.

Love you Julie!

Posted by: kristine at Jun 28, 2005 3:50:19 PM

For crying out loud. Everyone get over it.

You've got to do what's best for you and your family.

I managed to not listen to mine cry in a small one bedroom apartment. I've often asked him about things that we did when was an infant, and he doesn't have a clue what I'm talking about.

He's fine. Except that he's a teenager and he currently hates me.

Whatever.

Oh, and you're little musical numbers keep get downloaded to my iTunes which I forget about and then I download them to my iPod and inbetween Foo Fighters and Coldplay I have a Sesame Street song and a song from the 70's.

Thanks.

Posted by: Scully at Jun 28, 2005 3:55:10 PM

I haven't read all the comments, so somebody might have already said this ... but babies (and perhaps adults? I don't know), but definitely babies/toddlers sleep in 50min cycles ... hence the waking after 50mins ... and if they sleep through that 50mins you can guarantee they wake after 1hr40mins ... it's a handy thing to know, and helps understand why the letting him cry himself back to sleep works. My 14yo was a 50min napper (before I realised why), and he's turned out okay ;) ... but I wish I'd known more and left him - we wasted to much baby time worrying about him not sleeping.

Posted by: lisa at Jun 28, 2005 4:01:40 PM

Great post! Good for you!

Unlike you, hearing baby #2 cry tore my heart out, so we would get her up, feed her, let her play, etc. It was awful! She got to the point that she knew all she had to do was cry and we would swoop in and get her out of the bed. It just seemed wrong to let her cry for more than 30 minutes.

Then, I hit the sleep deprived bottom. We were going crazy and I desperately wanted a night of sleep. The pediatrician assured me that she was not going to die if we left her to CIO. He said to let her go for an hour before checking. The first night was 48 minutes of screaming, but the next night was only 20, and now it is none. Sleep at last!

I only wish that I had done it sooner. A well rested set of parents certainly makes everyone happier.

Posted by: ccw at Jun 28, 2005 4:03:53 PM

Yep, worked with Polly too. I've learned that the 15 minute mark is it for her - if she goes beyond that she really is hungry or has a dirty diaper. Otherwise she just shuts off, up and down. Woo hoo!

Posted by: Menita at Jun 28, 2005 4:06:53 PM

I just wanted to clarify that I meant for the people who give you grief to get over it. Not the people who responded to this post.

9 more weeks until my vacation.

Posted by: Scully at Jun 28, 2005 4:15:00 PM

Good for you, Julie. Do what feels right for you and Charlie. I don't think anyone can ask any more of you.

Posted by: Red at Jun 28, 2005 4:17:59 PM

"They may also cry because they need to sleep"
Exactly right T. Hell there are some nights I wish I could CIO to get to sleep I get so damn tired.

Posted by: cheryl b. at Jun 28, 2005 4:35:22 PM

De-lurking for the first time to say, great post.

CIO can be very very effective. I personally wouldn't use it on an infant younger than 4-6 months, but I would and do use it on my girls who are older than that. I'm a firm believer that they need to learn to put themselves to sleep and BACK to sleep too. They don't remember and they get the sleep they need to be happier campers.

Posted by: JK at Jun 28, 2005 5:03:45 PM

Excellent! So glad to here he is getting much needed rest, and you are too.

Have just implemented same with our 18 month old and he is now going down like a champ. Except we sit on the floor in his room out of reach. 10 minutes and we're good to go the whole night. It rocks. Any guilt over him not being able to soothe himself on my arm (usual method) is lessened by the fact that i get to sleep all night and am actually happy to see him the next morning.

Posted by: karyn at Jun 28, 2005 5:11:46 PM

If they are safe, the crying doesn't last more than 15-20 minutes, and they are not in pain or serious misery, I totally agree.

Posted by: Running2Ks at Jun 28, 2005 5:53:17 PM

My older children were born in the mid-eighties. I'm not sure if the AP approach was around then, but I had certainly never heard of it. Anything I did with them, I did instinctively. Which meant they slept in their own beds in their own rooms and cried it out when necessary. We never had nap or bedtime problems and were always happy to see each other after a decent amount of time apart. I really think moms should trust their instincts 99% of the time. They'll almost always get it right for their situation and their child.

Posted by: Razz at Jun 28, 2005 5:54:20 PM

I just recently found your site Julie and I must say, it fills me with relief. I'm 29 weeks pregnant and have felt completely inadequate because I'm not enjoying it and I don't feel the way I thought I should. I am so excited about the baby, but the pregnancy has been pure shit. After reading your posts and the comments from others, I realize I'm far from alone.

Anyway, on topic: I am completely clueless when it comes to child-rearing techniques. I'm 32, this is our first child and I've never been really involved with children. I'm just glad to see there can be rational discussions and alternatives. Maybe I won't be so disappointed in myself as a parent as I have been as a incubator. Ha! Who am I kidding?!

Posted by: Cynthia at Jun 28, 2005 6:02:17 PM

welcome to the internet, where any idiot with a 'puter can judge you.

Posted by: Sarcastic Journalist at Jun 28, 2005 6:10:48 PM

As you found out in graphic detail!

Posted by: Julie at Jun 28, 2005 6:52:49 PM

I knew I loved my kids (14 mo. twins) pediatrician when I asked him about our sleeping issues - He told me to do the whole timer thing-y and to let them settle themselves. My favorite part? He also said to grab a glass of wine and relax outside during their naps. The neighbors looked at me a little funny...drinking wine at 10a.m.
Mel

Posted by: Melanie at Jun 28, 2005 7:15:53 PM

Yeah yeah, I know. Oh and julie, my little one is in her crib screaming her head off right now. I thought of you.

"WWJD"

What would julie do?

Posted by: Sarcastic Journalist at Jun 28, 2005 7:27:26 PM

Hey mama knows best and it sounds like it's working! Who is anyone to judge.

Posted by: Cara at Jun 28, 2005 7:47:48 PM

O-ho! Bringing back memories! We didn't know any better with my son and did the 'swoop and grab anytime there was a peep' from the crib. At nine months we were fighting day and night, Cass was so tired there were bruises under his eyes, and my WOD (Wise Old Doctor) sat me down and told me to let him CIO. That first night, we sat downstairs, gripping hands, hating each other, while Cass screamed bloody murder for 46.2 minutes.
The next night? Three minutes of half-hearted crying.
Cass is three now. And doesn't hate me.

Posted by: Jess in Nova Scotia at Jun 28, 2005 8:06:05 PM

Some kids can put themselves back to sleep, some cat nap, others sleep all day and night and others not at all. I'm a firm believer, babies need sleep - you could carry him around in a sling all day soothing him between waking cycles as he dozes and sleeps and peacefully gets that much needed rest (would you go mad doing that - I would), or you could do what you're doing. My first was a demon non-sleeper, after weeks (months?) of trying to pat, rock and soothe with my gentle singing (whaaat is wrooong with yooooou) I let him cry while I sat in the back yard for an hour. Worked a charm. I think you can hyper-stimulate a tired baby with some soothing methods (baby ends up wired and tired), crying it out sort of breaks that cycle.

Posted by: Claire at Jun 28, 2005 8:08:09 PM

I don't think you're hurting him at all. The only time I'm opposed to CIO is when people are trying to train their babies to sleep through the night for selfish reasons. I got up with mine 2-3 times a night to feed him up to 8 months old, when he learned to sleep through the night on his own. Now he gets to CIO because he won't go to sleep any other way since learning to crawl. Of course, I'm a bad parent and let him occasionally go to bed with a bottle because it calms him down(if he's hungry). Gonna rot out all those teeth he doesn't yet have!

Posted by: dawna at Jun 28, 2005 8:23:41 PM

good for you Julie, but most of all, good for Charlie.
My Dumpling is adopted, so I was warned from here to Sunday about EVEr letting her cry, about the bonding we had to make up, etc. Eventually, I just couldn't take the schedule anymore and let her cry it out, one night. And you know what, she never cried again and a year later, she's totally well adapted and bonding like a champ. I jsut had to get through that one night....

Posted by: mortimersmom at Jun 28, 2005 8:57:02 PM

WAY TO WORD IT JULIE!!!!
I was the never will I do the cio thing but I did and I survived it.. SHE NOW SLEEPS FROM 8-7 WITH NO PROBLEMS WOOOHOO
Dawn

Posted by: dawn at Jun 28, 2005 9:22:50 PM

Also delurking to say that this is truly the most wonderful post you've written since the babe arrived. So, so sensible.

The clash between "Ferberizers" and "I can't/won't let them CIO and how can you even dream of it" has always puzzled me in the fierceness of the stances -- it has actually always felt reminiscent of pro-life vs pro-choice stances where the slogans end up completely judgmental, the complexity is erased, and the lines get written in black and white.

"Ferberizing" so much ISN"T necessarily about crying it out -- it can also be about learning self-comfort, accomodating one's moods, becoming a self-soother -- and it can also be about mom feeling as though she has some control in the universe, as though her sleep/sanity matters, as though she has a prayer of being the good mother she is buried under sleep-deprived psychosis. It's about functioning in the world which continues to march on despite the addition of the Little Miracle.

Raising babies is grey. Finding comfort levels is what it's all about.

In addition I've got to echo what some others have said -- most of my friends who have been militant anti-ferberizers have ended up with kids who have signficant sleep problems for YEARS. Maybe it's just my choice of friends (or the fact that we used to live near Dr. Ferber himeself) ;-).

Anyways, HOORAH girlie girl and HOORAH for sleep!

Cathy

Posted by: cathy at Jun 28, 2005 9:25:37 PM

Well, you've alienated me. I thought you were an educated woman. Why does Charlie stop crying? Because he is learning a lesson. That when he cries, mommy may not come and get him. He feels abandoned and his primal instincts kick in for self-preservation (I'm alone in the world, I must conserve energy or die). Some of your readers think he won't remember. No, at the age of 8, he won't go, "Remember that time you left me crying for 13 minutes in my crib?" But he will trust you less and that will carry on into adulthood. It's not too late. Maybe you can rebuild his trust. My son was also a short napper and I NEVER let him CIO. He's now 17 months and takes a great 2 hour nap all by himself in the afternoon and sleeps 10 hours at night (waking after about 6 hours for a night snack). He's also healthy, happy, and knows how loved he is. Hope Charlie is the same as a toddler...

Posted by: Anonymous at Jun 28, 2005 9:40:08 PM

You know, I'm kind of impressed that we got through 79 comments without anyone saying that sooner.

Posted by: Julie at Jun 28, 2005 9:51:19 PM

No judgements or alienation here. Good luck and congratulations on trusting your instincts.

Posted by: Melissa at Jun 28, 2005 9:53:11 PM

Wow, that's brave of you, anonymous. Way to not be a chickenshit. Nice to know that all those previous comments about how parenting has grey areas made such an impact on you.

I think Julie knows Charlie a hell of a lot better than you do.

Douchebag.

Posted by: Red at Jun 28, 2005 10:36:30 PM

I never felt bad about it. It made everyone happier. My MIL ont he other hand actually said that I was damaging my daughter's nervous system. Yup, she said that. AND she eventually got some part of that idea into my husband's head. So round about when I went back to work, he really didn't want her to cry it out. After twoo weeks of 60+ hour work weeks and 4- hours of sleep I told him I was going to loose my job or my sanity. He said ok, let her CIA tonight. It took less than an hour and I was a much happier and well rested mother. My husband escaped without bodily injury, but as far as my relationship with my MIL... Well, I always kinda knew it wasn't meant to be...

Posted by: JuliaKB at Jun 28, 2005 10:43:53 PM

One time, when I was a baby, my Mom let me cry it out. And now I have a website and I got fired for it. IT IS ALL HER FAULT.

Posted by: Sarcastic Journalist at Jun 28, 2005 10:44:18 PM

I guess no one needs to guess why anonymous commented anonymously.

My good friends and neighbours have a 16mo who they leave to CIO, and I have done the same babysitting for the same child (it lasts about 5-10 minutes and she's out like a light). If she gets ACTUALLY distressed, they go to her. Otherwise, it's pretty much the same principal as me (I'm a non-parent) teaching my dogs to sleep through the night. Pander to them, and they be up once or twice to go out in the night and I get no sleep. Teach them that sleeping time is for sleeping, and lo and behold, they sleep through the night. Imagine that!! My parents let me CIO and I can assure anonymous, I trust them just fine. I acknowledge freely that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and anonymous, I respect that. MY opinion however is that yours is bollocks.

Posted by: Simonne at Jun 28, 2005 10:45:53 PM

Julie, me thinks the reason nobody (other than anonymous) has really spoken up against CIO is because you specifically asked them not to. Not because I think anonymous is the only one of your readers out there who thinks CIO is wrong. Especially Weissbluth, who is such a quack he says that kids "enjoy" crying hard enough to make themselves vomit. But, hey, if it works for you and is curbing the sleep deprivation in your household...

Also, you went through hell to get Charlie and he's your son and you can raise him as you wish. If that means CIO, seems like that's your prerogative. I just know that CIO doesn't always work. And CIO isn't the only thing that does work.

But you haven't alienated me... other than this issue I think you're hilarious and brilliant.

Posted by: Kat at Jun 28, 2005 10:50:45 PM

Also, to anonymous ...

I would also just like to suggest that if you pulled your head out of your a**, the view might be nicer.

That's all folks.

Posted by: Simonne at Jun 28, 2005 10:52:06 PM

For Kat -

I liked your post.

Posted by: Simonne at Jun 28, 2005 10:56:31 PM

Ya know... when I stayed with you guys a few weeks ago. I wanted desperately to say.. "let him cry it out for a bit" just to see what happens. Don't go in there every time he makes a sound.

But I didn't. I don't know why.. perhaps it was because I didn't want to seem cruel. Hell maybe it was because I didn't want to miss out on seeing your glorious rack.

Nah.. it was because I knew that he's YOUR baby.. and YOU know what's best for him and for your family. That and it wasn't any of my damn business. LOL (hint hint, anon)

I'm glad you figured it out. You know my theory.. Happy Family/Mommy = Happy Baby.

Posted by: BrendaS at Jun 28, 2005 11:09:12 PM

With my first born I would do ANYTHING to get him to go to sleep. ANYTHING. I remember gasping when I heard a neighbor say she let her son CIO. My son slept like shit for years.

Enter the daughters. From day one they were encouraged to go to sleep on their own. CIO? Sure, but as long as their needs were met and they were not sick they didn't. Why? They had learnt how to go to sleep independently from day 1. When they got messed up by vacations or whatever they would put up a little fuss but basically within a moment or two they were sleeping.

The moral to this story? The sooner Charlie learns to sleep on his own the happier you will all be. Trust me.

Posted by: maia at Jun 28, 2005 11:33:16 PM

**delurking** to say that Ican't believe you wrote this post, which I read tobight, fatre th day I had. A day of no sleeping by the babe and me trying to rok her to sleep in the sweltering ST. Albans heat (hello...I moved to vermont for a reason!) A baby pressed againsta human in 90 degree weather is never good. Once there were no naps to be had all day, there was no sleep to be had at bedtime tonight (despite us following the bedtime rituals to a T!!) At 9:45 (an hours an a 45 minutes past bedtime) once my sweet 8 week old daughter was asleep, I cracked open the cuvee blanc and the Price Chopper cinnimon buns. I feel better and thinbk I can now fight our night time battles. I say, AMEN to you and best of luck. I will be braving those waters soon. iF by three mos I need to CIO, I will be doing it but I have to say, I'm scared. My Fiancee has offered to watch over the babe wjile I escape. I hope it works as well for us as well as it has worked for you.

Posted by: Meg at Jun 28, 2005 11:39:20 PM

You know, I think mother's instincts are absolutely right. If his crying doesn't bother you, it is probably just what you said: an invitation to play. If he was unhappy, you'd know and go running in. So don't fret and enjoy .
My daughter also had short naps, but her cries brought me running: turned out she had a nasty milk allergy with all sorts of symptoms. So I was against crying it out, and right about it, too. The fact that you are comfortable with it means that it is the right thing. Enjoy the naps.

Posted by: Izabela at Jun 29, 2005 12:06:40 AM

I'm going to have to say that I don't like the tone of alot of these posts pretending to be supportive.

Can we stop treating Julie like she is some sort of short-bus mom who is finally catching on to the way things are SUPPOSED to be done?! Seriously. I can't stand reading one more person saying "Finally! You did what I've been telling you to do, you freakin moron. It's about time you stop pansying around with that baby of yours" comment.

Charlie will be a sociopath b/c she dresses him like little fruitcake! duh.

Posted by: ktcakes at Jun 29, 2005 12:18:50 AM

I am so thrilled to hear it! My baby is about the same age as Charlie, and I think of you often and your stories of Charlie's screaming marathons and super-short naps. I think you're a testament to patience, and the fact that you've made it this far without tearing out your own hair is a sign that you are a great mother, and will continue to evolve into even greater vestiges of motherhood. I'm relieved to hear you're finding a system that works for you. Good for you.

Posted by: Karla at Jun 29, 2005 12:22:57 AM

Crying it out is not something I could do, but I'm pretty lucky. Paul has been sleeping through the night since around 3 or so months. His naps are a little on the short side, but he also tends to play in his crib. I still remember how hard it was when he first came home, and it was nurse, pump, snack, sleep for an hour and repeat.

I think if that had continued for very long, I would have tried crying it out for when he was just bored or a little fussy. I think people forget moms need time to themselves, and 15-30 minute naps don't really cut it. When my pediatrician saw how exhausted I was at the 1 month check up, she told me it was better for them to cry a bit than to get so exhausted and stressed, so long as they had all their needs tended to.

However, there are times when I need to do something, like take a shower or wash clothes. I usually leave him happily sleeping or playing, but sometimes he wants someone to play with before I'm done. I don't feel bad about it, because I know I can't be with him every single second of the day and stay sane.

Crying it out wouldn't work for us, since his latest trick is to wedge himself into a sitting position in the corner of his crib and attempt to pull himself out of the crib. Of course this usually results in a bumped head, which means he does need to be comforted before he'll go to sleep.

It's kind of funny. He has one of those nice expensive legacy convertible cribs, a packNplay... but his choice of bed for naps leaves us baffled, but amused. Well, except for the puppy who isn't quite sure what to do. In his crib, he might go an hour... the packNplay might yield 30 minutes if he was really tired... Jack's bed usually gets at least 2 hours.

It will get a lot easier when he gets closer to 6 months. Once Paul could sit unassisted, he's been quite content to play on the floor for close to an hour at a time. Charlie will probably be a better napper once he figures out how to get up on his hands and knees to rock. It seems like that's a really good way for babies to work off excess energy.

Posted by: Caitlin at Jun 29, 2005 12:26:15 AM

Way to go!!!

I do it with my daughter. We have a rule arround this house. Fussy Babies go to bed. It has been that way since 6 weeks. It works for us, and the temperment of our baby. It never takes her long to settle. She hasn't cried at all at bedtime in months and months, since we gave her the toddler bed at 14 months. She is 21 months, and we tell her it is time for night night. She walks back and climbs into bed herself. She puts herself down for naps if she is tired. It is SO nice not to have sleep battles... Food Battles... That is another story... :) She gets up on her own, and walks to the door, and says "Mommy, Mommy". She doesn't get up out of bed until she is fully awake, sometimes 30 minutes or so after she starts stirring. If something is wrong, she tells us. (When she was younger, it was a different cry).

Posted by: at Jun 29, 2005 12:51:19 AM

I admire you and aspire to get the point with my girl (about the same age as your Charlie). My first attempt at CIO lasted over an hour of her wailing and it turned out that she had an ear infection (have to say -because I am sure people will think I am an idiot for not knowing - that there was NO other sympton with that - no snot, no sneezing, no grabbing ears) - boy, did I feel like mother of the year. Eventually, months later, I tried it again and it lasted 20 minutes and she slept through for about 10 days and then - ear infection. So now in the few hours of sleep I get a night, I dream of no ear infections and more than 5 hours of uninterupted sleep.

I love reading your stories, I just found you about a month ago and had the instant connection because I, too, was a little pregnant. Thank you for entertaining me - you are fabulous!

Posted by: sonia at Jun 29, 2005 12:54:51 AM

As a clinical psychologist who does not want to enter a flame war, I did want to say that anonymous is correct from the perpective of most psychoanalytic theories. CIO does teach infants a lesson- be quiet, you won't get help. With ADDITIONAL factors, this can affect the child subconsciously, with resultant behaviors arising around mid-adolescence.

If you believe in behavioral theory and basically view training your child much like training your dog (CIO is a lesson, but inconsequential, no underlying effects- just a change in behavior and they know that you love them), then CIO works. ON THE SURFACE.

If this is not your worldview and/or you believe that children have sensitivities/ you have memories of your own parents' subtle neglect, don't CIO.

My clinical belief, and there are many, is that this is the start of a slippery slope into justifying all kinds of parenting choices as your children age which ultimately are about getting the adult's needs met at the cost of the child's.

Posted by: ellen at Jun 29, 2005 1:21:32 AM

Must delurk for this one -- 3 children later, all boys, 22, almost (as he reminds me often) 18 and 8, with a grandchild by the 32 year old step-daughter on the way -- that has got to be the best post and summation of parenthood I've heard or read in ages -- it hurts to listen (it always will), but some lessons must be learned, and all will be better for it in the end. Thanks for a great read! Greetings from Georgia!

Posted by: Starling at Jun 29, 2005 1:29:41 AM

I'm so glad you found a method that works for you! I think we tried just about everything with our two (they both had reflux, which complicated things) and ended up settling on different methods for each. :)

Posted by: purple_kangaroo at Jun 29, 2005 1:31:16 AM

Man, I struggle with this issue. I was staunchly opposed to CIO with my firstborn, now aged 3, but with my 10 month old I'm really starting to wonder. Everything I do to *gently* help him to sleep simply seems to prolong the agony--it's not like I'm actually soothing him when what he wants isn't ME, it's sleep. It just seems possible that the cruel, potentially traumatising event is the realization that he has a completely ineffectual mother who CAN'T help him sleep when he needs it most. Wouldn't that play some part in later adolescent scorn for the can't-do-anything-right parents, Ellen?

My husband simply refuses to do the CIO thing, even though we know a couple whose pediatrician was Weissbluth before they moved--in fact their son is featured in one of the book's case studies.

As with so many parenting trials, I'd give my left breast (sweet, sleepless son prefers the right one, anyway!) for a crystal ball.

Posted by: Soren at Jun 29, 2005 2:37:51 AM

Um. Yes. Because someone who has read numerous childcare books and sought help from her pediatrician is going to take the advice of preachy anonymous commenters. Sure.

Julie, you rock. You rock hard, you rock long, and now you rock with significantly greater mutual delight and joy. Yay!

Posted by: akeeyu at Jun 29, 2005 2:52:09 AM

I've used CIO with all my kids, but I always liked to rock them a bit first... Get them drowsy, read to them, that sort of thing. Well, there have been times with my youngest, when we were rocking, that she would be screaming bloody murder. (she was extra tired) I would finally get fed up and just put her to bed already screaming. She would INSTANTLY stop crying, roll over, pop her thumb in her mouth and fall asleep... Probably wondering why I didn't put her down sooner! ;) Sometimes babies just want to be left alone... They need their own space too.

Julie

P.S. Charlie is adorable!

Posted by: Julie at Jun 29, 2005 3:14:51 AM

Of course, the flip side of "If he's not hungry and not in pain..." is that after five or six or seven hours of sleep interspersed with crawling to Canada (Mexico if I put hit down) he does get kinda peckish.

At some point we're going to have to deal with that issue, but for the moment, as long as he a) stops screaming the moment the nipple hits his lips and b) sucks down a quart of formula and goes back to bed without even opening his eyes to burp, it's not so bad. I figure he has to at least be awake to be plotting against us.

Posted by: paul at Jun 29, 2005 4:36:54 AM

See, the internets still love you.

I am v v close to trying this with Adam. What I am scared of is that he starts crying hysterically - does C do that? Or is just general "I'm pissed" kind of crying?

Good for you a'hole!

Posted by: Tertia at Jun 29, 2005 5:45:42 AM

I don't know, T. — Charlie hasn't done the hysterical crying, despite what some of the commenters above assume. That's why I don't generally go out of earshot. If he's ever obviously not winding down, I do go in and care for him. I may be, what was it, subtly neglectful? But I'm not a monster.

Wait, maybe I am!

Posted by: Julie at Jun 29, 2005 6:10:10 AM

I have also found with our little chappie that if you don't rush in at the first little grizzle then he often falls back to sleep. He often doesn't like being put to bed but only grizzles for a short while and then goes to sleep. Sometimes he doesn't even grizzle at all whereas other times he really cries. If he really cries then I take him out again and play a bit more and then try again. I respect that he has decided he really doesn't want to go to bed at that time because it is not a pattern. Often the next time he goes down without a fuss. I guess it is knowing your baby and his cries - what is a grizzle (low level complaint) and what is a more painful cry for him. I usually go by that. It sounds as though you are sensitive to your guy too.

Posted by: Kim at Jun 29, 2005 6:27:31 AM

my pede reminded my wife one day of something very important that assuaged all the guilt i (at least) felt about all the stuff we were doing "WRONG" with our kids, all three of whom, at the time, were under the age of TWO.

"you know," he said, "your job is to meet their needs, not make them happy."

they need sleep. they need safety. they need dry diapers. they need to be fed. they need comfort.

most of all, though, they need sane parents who can provide those things.

there are times, even today, when they get inconsolably irritated about something and cry mightily forever. and although i'm a better, more patient parent now than i was two years ago, i still have my limit, and when i reach it, they go to the crib.

it's not to punish them, although they may not see it that way. it's to protect the entire family. the crib is a safe place where they will not hurt themselves while i deliberately do not pay attention to them for a while. that meets two immediate needs: safety, and sanity. it doesn't do much for comfort, but sometimes mommy isn't home and daddy just won't do, so comfort isn't gonna happen.

always meet his needs, even if you can't always make him happy, and you've done your job as a parent.

Posted by: RainbowW at Jun 29, 2005 6:44:09 AM

you know, this is none of my business, and i guess you just asked people to shut up if they dont agree. but these last few weeks several of the mothers i read have decided to cio and it makes me sad. not sad in a patronising way as in "im sad for you" but really just a sinking feeling here at my keyboard.
i am a mother of a 6 month old so i know some things but i live [i think] in a different cultural weather zone [northern europe] and i am not really experiencing any preasure for naps to be of a certain length and that kind of requirements that might lead me to try *whatever works*... hell, i even b.feed her to sleep and no one is giving me any s... about that :)
i am wondering to what extent the cio thing is a us phenomenen??? and if the behavioural psychology stand that ellen explained is simply more accepted here???
ps. kid seems happy
pps. as i said above i, its none of my business but there was a button that said *comment* on it

Posted by: at Jun 29, 2005 7:05:53 AM

Julie, I love you. Amen, sister.

On CIO, we did it with both kids in one form or another. I start every conversation about sleep training like this, "CIO is NOT for everyone, but sometimes its the only thing that will work for someone." Its like everything else in parenting. What people with rigid views of right and wrong in "methods" forget is that kids are just little people. What turns you on or ticks you off doesn't do the same for every other gal in town. How unfair is it to think kids can be forced into cookie cutter molds?

For Anonymous - its hard to take seriously someone that isn't secure enough in her/his own convictions to claim them as her/his own.

Ellen, not starting a flame war, but I'm sure that either 'side' can find support to its cause. I can tell you ancedotally, my parents used CIO when I was a infant. I never once had any issues or residual feelings of not being supported. In fact, I count my parents amongst my closest friends and would never, at any point of my life, doubt they'd be there when I needed them. A relationship is built on many many things - CIO will be just one piece of that. Charlie is seeing in so many other ways that his parents adore him and support him, the one instance is about to blow that all out of the water.

Rainbow - very wise. Our local mall is litered with too many out of control teens belonging to parents that were too afraid to tragically scar them throughout their youth by enforcing some rules and not making them happy 110% of the time. LOL!

Posted by: sandy at Jun 29, 2005 7:18:40 AM

i am not really experiencing any preasure for naps to be of a certain length

The only pressure I feel in this department is the stress of caring for an infant for 18 hours a day without a dependable break of any appreciable length.

Anonymous above writes, "My son was also a short napper and I NEVER let him CIO." Maybe she enjoyed that first year of choppy days. Maybe she never heard her baby crying 36 minutes after putting him down and thought, "Oh, God Jesus, already?!" What can I say? I do. If that pressure, where I spend the time when he's asleep dreading his waking, is one that I can relieve by listening to him complain a bit, I'll do it, because it's awful and, I insist, not good for anyone in the family, including Charlie.

Posted by: Julie at Jun 29, 2005 7:25:35 AM

worked for you; didn't work for us. I wish it had. mine didn't ever nap longer than 45 minutes. when she turns into a serial killer, I'll offer myself up as accessory to the crime ... And yes, it was terrrrrrribly hard on me, that first year, to never get a substantial break during the day. So I'm very happy for anyone who comes up with a workable solution to the same predicament I faced, though I don't think that the way we dealt with it was a 'mistake.'

we know that all kids are different, and all families are different. I've heard CIO stories that chilled me to the bone, but yours isn't one of them. And friends of ours have done different variations on what we used to call (inaccurately I'm sure) 'Ferberizing.' Their kids are no less delightful--nor any more delightful--than mine.

Posted by: jilbur at Jun 29, 2005 7:59:08 AM

Coming out of lurk mode for this one. I have never let my daughter CIO. I tried, and it failed miserably. Night after night, the crying fits got longer and more intense, until she actually started to vomit in her crib. My daughter was a 25 weeker, and I always felt that when I was letting her CIO, she was subconsciously thinking that I had abandonned her again like I had when I left her in the NICU. So did that method work for us, absolutly not.

I rocked my daughter to sleep until she was almost 3 years old. Did that infringe on my time, hell yeah it did. But those are moments that I would now never trade for anything in the world. Once we turned her crib into a toddler bed, I made the second parental sin of putting a TV in her room for her to watch when she fell asleep.

Caitlyn takes a nap like a champ, at 4 years old sometimes sleeping 3 hours still, though typically around 2. And she also sleeps damn near 10 hours a night. SO all that rocking must have helped somewhere along the line.

Does it mean my child will be less independent, highly doubtful...she is one of the most independent 4 year olds I know. Does it mean she will become a serial killer because I coddled her to bed, I am pretty sure it won't. As there are so many other influencing factors of parenting that determine that sort of thing (like nuerology).

Not to say that rocking your kid until they are 1/2 your length is the way to go, but it was what worked for us.

*back into lurk mode now*

Posted by: Nancy at Jun 29, 2005 8:04:25 AM

Mmm, CIO is not for us, but then Jamie ramps up to hysterics within 5 minutes. And he goes to sleep (and back to sleep) pretty easily.

I do think some babies can benefit from CIO. I just don't really understand the cheerleading posts. I mean, way to go, yes. But for figuring out the solution to your child's sleep problems. Not way to go for *finally* seeing the light about CIO. Just my opinion.

Posted by: AllyO at Jun 29, 2005 8:14:20 AM

LOL -
"I've had enough sleep!" "The hell you have."
Great attitude, mom. Keep it for when your two year old tells you "I don't need to eat those green things."

Posted by: Mary at Jun 29, 2005 8:32:33 AM

Add me to the list of moms who used CIO and would do it again without hesitation. I also did not feel like my heart was being ripped into shreds, nor did I sob hysterically during the process.

Did I enjoy it? Certainly not.

My babies needed a lot of things from me as their mother. Healthy sleep habits was one of those things, and I was very matter of fact in helping establish those habits from a very early age.

Posted by: Jennifer at Jun 29, 2005 8:48:05 AM

To anon from Norther Europe,

what you talk about (cultural differences in parenting) is very well explained in the book "ourbabies, ourselves" by Meredith Small. The book it's a good analysis of how biology and culture define the way we choose to parent. If you have some time off (and with a baby who does, right?, I read it on my lunch breaks) give it a try.

Posted by: happy at Jun 29, 2005 8:52:38 AM

I wouldn't get too excited about no more crying, since EVERY milestone, EVERY change, EVERY little difference - you will have to start over and subject him to that again and agin.

In other words, I think it was a horrible thing to do, but you had to do what YOU thought was best. I'm not you and can't judge you, but it isn't something I would ever do, nor have I ever done.

HEAR THAT? I said, for those who will later flame me for this opinion - I think it was wrong, but I don't, won't and can't judge Julie for her decision. It is her family and her child. However, I have never done it, and I never WILL do it.

But, Julie and Charlie, enjoy your sleep, however you get it.

Posted by: Angela at Jun 29, 2005 9:28:46 AM

hmmmm... so much for not judging..

Posted by: ktcakes at Jun 29, 2005 9:37:01 AM

Regarding CIO, I am closer to Kat than to Julie, but ultimately, I figure whatever works for you and keeps you sane is what you should do. I've read all the pros and the cons of CIO and frankly, much of what I've read doesn't really translate into real life. Some kids who CIO are high strung brats, some are little angels; some AP kids (my own at times) can be downright aggressive on the playground and make you daydream about sending away for military school applications. I think a lot of it is the nature of the kid and that most parents are just doing the best that they can. Who knows?

After a lot of pressure from our pediatrician and just about every other person on the planet, we tried CIO with Eric because he was a terrible napper and would only sleep during the day if held. All the books say most kids will fall asleep within an hour and that the crying time gradually decreases. My son was not one of those kids. He averaged about 75 minutes and then, still didn't fall asleep because he was so agitated. This lasted for about a week and frankly, it was terrible. One day my husband came home and I told him that if he wanted me to continue, he was going to have to take leave from work and stay home with me because I was about to go crazy. We never let him CIO again. Who knows if he ever would have been a good napper? As it was, he stopped napping anywhere but the car when he was about 12 months old and stopped napping altogether at about 2 1/2.

If your kid doesn't nap, you are at the playground when other kids are napping and you'll meet moms in the same situation and you compare notes. Almost all the moms I meet whose kids don't nap say they tried to CIO and it didn't work. The not napping thing has been terrible, I won't lie. I can't get a lot done but it wasn't worth it to me to leave him in the crib that way. He just doesn't seem to need that much sleep, although he's really easy at night and always has been. I have a friend who has used CIO with her son who is a similar napper as Eric and although she has gone through periods where she has to keep reinforcing CIO (much to their neighbor's dismay), he does nap after a while. It's just not worth the grief for me. I miss the days when he used to nap on my lap. Sure, my house was dirty, but it worked for us.

Posted by: chris at Jun 29, 2005 9:39:51 AM

I think the millitant adherance to one style of parenting stems from the belief that there is ONE right way to raise the baby, and that by doing something differently you will somehow damage that child for life. I.e. the belief that by letting your baby CIO your baby will grow up into an emotionally detatched psycopath, or that by NOT letting your baby CIO (s)he will never cut the apron strings and will be a whiny codependant 16yr old that still needs you to rock him/her to sleep.
It's important to remember that babies are resillient. The human race has withstood poor parenting, poor living conditions, poor nutrition, etc. and still manages to thrive in some awful conditions. The folly lies in the belief that there is ONE right way to do things and that any deviation (for the sake of what is best for YOUR baby) is unacceptable. Sure every parent wants to do what's best for their child, but life isn't always black and white. Often you have to make your rules up as you go along, psychological theories be damned.

Posted by: Sarah at Jun 29, 2005 9:40:05 AM

There is an awful lot of extrapolation going on here, from my saying we're letting him cry for 10-15 minutes in his crib to see whether he'll fall asleep again at the end of a single sleep cycle to the assumption that we're leaving him howling for hours on end, lying in a pool of his own filth.

As Cathy suggested way up there, I think we're in danger of letting the complexities of this issue, and of every family's unique needs, get buried under the weight of our own personal dogma.

I think it was a horrible thing to do...I'm not you and can't judge you.

Hmmmmm.

Posted by: Julie at Jun 29, 2005 9:50:31 AM

Just wanted to add that I can vouch for Julie not letting C yell hysterically - the asshole keeps cutting our IM chats short to go see to him when he wakes up. Selfish child that he is.

I honestly don't know WHERE her priorities lie. Clearly not with me. Asshole.

Posted by: Tertia at Jun 29, 2005 9:52:15 AM

Actually, it's just that even a crying, inarticulate baby is a more interesting conversationalist than you are.

Posted by: Julie at Jun 29, 2005 9:55:53 AM

Bitch.

Posted by: Tertia at Jun 29, 2005 9:59:08 AM

Heavens above people! I think the only decision we can begrudge a new mum is one made without careful thought. Julie has put a lot of careful thought into her child rearing choices. Baby is not the only one she needs to think about - she needs to preserve her own sanity! So what if you disagree? Keep it to yourself. But how can you not admire a mother that has spent so many days considering a plan of action to help her family?

How can people be so stupidly dogmatic that *their* way is the only way for *everyone*? A lack of understanding and flexibility are actually lousy qualities for child rearers.

Posted by: jacqueline at Jun 29, 2005 10:19:30 AM

There is a world of difference between psychological "theories" and psychological science.

Regardless of what "psychoanalytic theories" espouse, they are just that - theories, most of which have never been empirically tested. Moreover, the psychoanalytic theories that *have* been tested have generally been found to be either wholly or partially incorrect.

In addition, I'm not even convinced that "most psychoanalytic theories" claim what Ellen says they do. I'd love to see even one quotation from a reputable, well-known psychoanalytic theorist (not Dr. Sears - a psychoanalytic theorist) stating that leaving a child to cry in his crib for 15 minutes will cause long-lasting psychological damage (remember, Bowlby was talking about institutionalized children who had been separated from their parents). Even more, I'd love to see the research proving that assertion correct.

The problem is that some people cherry-pick the "theories" they'll believe, while simultaneously ignoring an enormous amount of research regarding child development, individual psychology, and the biophisiology of sleep.

I'd also like to know Ellen's take on the large body of literature out there comparing children whose parents employed some variant of CIO with children whose parents didn't. Researchers have never been able to find any difference between the children in terms of developmental outcomes, emotional adjustment, security of attachment, or social skills. However, they were able to find a significant difference between the *mothers* of these children ...

... The mothers who never let their children cry at all, and who were vastly more sleep-deprived as a result, were significantly more depressed than the mothers who were getting adequate sleep.

Just some food for thought.

P.S. "House Of Cards," by Robyn Dawes. Please read it, Ellen. It might help to clear up your muddled thinking.

Posted by: Scotus at Jun 29, 2005 10:19:47 AM

Sarah wrote, among other brilliant insights: "The folly lies in the belief that there is ONE right way to do things and that any deviation (for the sake of what is best for YOUR baby) is unacceptable. Sure every parent wants to do what's best for their child, but life isn't always black and white. Often you have to make your rules up as you go along, psychological theories be damned."

I think I love you, Sarah.

I find it ludicrous that someone purporting to be a clinician would take such a black-and-white view, implying that CIO could damage a child for life. Doesn't sound like the rhetoric of any therapists or scientists I've encountered. Doesn't it seem more likely that a few nights of crying--or a few naptimes where some crying occurs, as in Julie's case--couldn't put a dent in a lifetime of love and respect, laughter, caring, and shared experiences? That's my clinical opinion, and I'm sticking to it. (my evidence: three thriving, bright, loving, healthy boys, all allowed to cry for different reasons and in different ways--never till spasming and sitting in their own vomit--though if I have a 4th, perhaps I'll go for the whole enchilada and see how he/she turns out).

Posted by: Toni at Jun 29, 2005 10:22:47 AM

"The problem is that some people cherry-pick the "theories" they'll believe, while simultaneously ignoring an enormous amount of research regarding child development, individual psychology, and the biophisiology of sleep."

Heavens no. We don't want to let scientific thinking cloud our pseudo-scientific rhetoric, to we? See: Ellen on CIO and Tom Cruise on post-partum depression.

Great post. Again, I tried to e-mail this reply, but so many of you use fake e-mail addresses. Kids these days!

Well said, Jacqueline, too. Parenting is not a static process, it's about common sense and love and doing our best. And it's about having the wisdom to simply agree to disagree without being hateful, particularly to someone who's being open and honest about her parenting choices regarding her much-beloved son.

A friend often says that the viciousness with which a parent attacks another is inversely proportional to their level of security as a parent. Make that "a wise friend."

~Toni

Posted by: Toni at Jun 29, 2005 10:35:09 AM

Ahem...can I just say...I'm not a Mum so I know this opinion doesn't count for much...but...*steels self*

I don't understand this idea that a baby's cries (I'm not talking about when they're in pain or anything, just when they're cross in a 'no nap for me!' style) are meant to rip a mother's heart out. Drive her batty, maybe...

I know they didn't rip my mum's heart out - and she was (is) the best mum ever, not an unfeeling monster. Go Julie!

Posted by: Jenny/Long Time Lurker at Jun 29, 2005 10:50:47 AM

Well said, Scotus!

Posted by: Kelli at Jun 29, 2005 10:52:36 AM

Delurking to provide a piece of assvice. The best piece of advice I was given is the following. Institute "Mommy nap-time" When this woman's son was about 2, and refusing to take a nap, she told him that the reason that he took a nap was because Mommy was so tired that she needed that nap every day. From 1 to 3 every afternoon, he must stay in his room either napping or playing quietly so that Mommy could nap. She gave him an alarm clock and he had to stay in his room until the alarm went off. She left his bedroom door open so he could look across the hall to her room, where she was "taking a nap". After 15 to 20 minutes he fell asleep either in bed or on the floor. She'd get up and do laundry or dishes. When her son was 15 and on April vacation, he had a bunch of friends over. At 1 o'clock he informed them it was nap time, they had to go to his room and be quiet for two hours because his mother needed her nap. She was slightly embarassed until all the boys said "cool".

My nephew's day-care called it quiet time. The older children have to lay on a mat and quietly watch a movie while the younger children nap. Something about that mat just knocks them out though.

Posted by: Heather at Jun 29, 2005 11:06:07 AM

I am allowed my opinions. I didn't say or suggest that Julie herself was horrible, I merely said that CIO is horrible. Especially in its EXTREME forms...it is horrible. I can't leave my son to cry hysterically until he vomits and then lightly clean around him and leave him scream some more. Sorry that is horrible. BUT that isn't what Julie did, however that is what the method calls for.

Julie reminded everyone that 10-15 minutes isn't terrible. Of light/sleepy fussing, okay, not terrible, not something I would do, but not terrible. An hour of crying while you sit outside unaware of whether he has vomited or shit himself from crying? Maybe not so nice (this was suggested to my by my ped as well, and I told him EXACTLY the same thing, he agreed that I had a point).

However, I tried it once (not an hour though). I never did it again. Does that make me better? Hell no. It means I found something else, because NO I couldn't survive as it was (and 45 minutes is good considering the naps Ryan used to take - now we often get 2 naps of at least an hour, usually 3)

My son doesn't do light fussing for 10-15 minutes. At an HOUR he would still be hysterical and vomiting and covered in feces. So to me CIO is horrible. Does that explain it better? In my situation it is AWFUL. The way Julie has employed it? Not as awful, but not worth jumping up and down cheering over.

I am, however, HAPPY that she and Charlie (not to mention Paul) are getting sleep. Charlie DOES need sleep, I would have used another method, but Charlie is NOT my baby. He is Julie and Paul's hard won baby and they can raise him as they see fit.

I don't judge them, only the method they utlize.

Posted by: Angela at Jun 29, 2005 11:15:23 AM

Wow. Now, Julie, I know your posts have been controversial in the past, but this one is starting to get out of hand. Let's see, anonymous is too gutless to own up to his/her beliefs, "Ellen" seems to think because she is a psychologist we are all going to believe her viewpoint because as a society we are all blindly hypnotized by anyone with letters after their name, and the rest of those "not judging" subscribe to the whole "hate the sin, love the sinner" mindset. If this were an experiment in our ability to "not judge" someone for their views and behavio

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