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06/02/2006

A round of penis for all my friends

Thank you, all of you, for your kind words about my cancellation.  Five years ago I would never have predicted I'd be classifying "fuck," "sucks ass," and homey tips on how to prepare testicles as kind words.  Now I know better.  Y'all give good monkey nut, my friends inside the computer.

At my scan on Wednesday, on day 6 of stims, we saw two infinitesimal follicles, period.  I was initially instructed to up my dosage to six amps a day and return two days later, but an hour later I got a call from my doctor suggesting that that would merely be throwing good postmenopausal nun urine after bad.  I agreed immediately. 

Although I'd been resistant to cancelling in the past, this time I felt none of that reluctance.  First, I am seasoned enough to know that a cancellation hurts less than a negative.  I have enough perspective now, too, to believe that "nothing survived to transfer" is significantly worse than "didn't make it to retrieval."  And I've done this enough times to know that on a good cycle for me, which might fairly be considered a crappy cycle for anyone else, my day 6 E2 has always been between 150 and 200.  13 wasn't going to cut it, and even I, ever the sunny, cockeyed optimist — shut up — knew it.

But there's also the fact that the stakes are different this time.  A cancellation no longer holds the possibility that I'll never achieve an ongoing pregnancy.  It might mean that I never will again, but everyone who's contended with infertility, successfully or not, knows what a very big difference that is.  So I'm disappointed, yes, but not devastated.  My hopes are dampened but not shattered.  It's the kind of letdown that makes you drink a big glass of vodka, not a big bottle of rubbing alcohol.

So, you know, everything's okay.

What I don't know is what happens next.  As a noted reproductive endocrinologist with years of clinical experience and impeccable credentials, I have a theory, and it is that 18 days of Lupron before starting stims knocked my ovaries flat on their sorry asses — sorry, am I being too technical? — leaving them too stunned to hang ten on the torrents of elderly nun pee that temporarily flooded my system.  So it's tempting not to abandon the long Lupron protocol, on which I've gotten pregnant three times, but to try it again, only, er, less long.

But I can't ignore the fact that I've never had a great response on that protocol, despite those three pregnancies.  It has always given me pause that on every cycle, I end up with one good embryo, max.  Now, I don't need more than one good embryo, and it is, after all, the getting and staying pregnant that matters, but this is America, where more is better, so of course I'd rather a more enthusiastic response.  In fact, I'm pretty sure our Constitution guarantees it.  So the temptation to try another protocol is stronger.

My doctor has suggested an antagonist protocol, which is commonly prescribed for older women and poor responders.  It differs from the long Lupron regime I described before in that there's no suppression prior to starting stims.  When your period begins, you have a scan to make sure that your endometrium is properly thinning and your ovaries aren't pocked with cysts.  Then, if you're given the all clear, you begin injecting gonadotropins on day 2 of your period.  When your follicles reach a certain size, you begin daily injections of a GnRH-antagonist — see, I told you I was a doctor — to inhibit ovulation so that the eggs can be retrieved surgically.

Here's the catch: Scheduling this is going to be difficult.  Because of lab closings, a heavily scheduled summer, and the fact that I can't take oral contraceptives, I don't know when we'll be able to cycle again.

The nurse called this afternoon and said I could take progesterone to start my period and then start stims June 11.  This puts a theoretical retrieval perilously close to an unbreakable commitment Paul has.  If we don't take the date, the lab closes, my period goes on holiday, and July and August are completely booked. 

There are certainly worse things than taking another couple of months off because we can't fit a cycle in between trips to a beach house — certainly.  It is, as I said above, a disappointment.  But I repeat, it's a big-glass-of-vodka disappointment, not a frosty-cold-dead-penis disappointment.

Posted by Julie at 10:14 PM in Notes from astride the stirrups | Permalink

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Comments (45)

Sorry about the cancellation but glad to see that the vodka's been stocked up for just such an occasion.

I think you summed my thoughts up perfectly on trying for #2...my hopes may get dampened if another pregnancy isn't in the cards but they won't be shattered.

And the fact that you can sum that feeling up so perfectly is but one reason why I lurve you so.

Posted by: Dee at Jun 2, 2006 10:27:19 PM

Glad to hear you survived your bender... And that having Charlie around eases the pain/dissapointment a (little) bit.

I hope you'll have better luck on your next cycle!!

ps. Strange that scheduling a cycle during the summer is hard in the US because it's overbooked... In the Netherlands it's impossible for a completely different reason: it's when all the RE's and labrats go on their two-month holiday... I know it adds nothing useful to your comments (so please delete if you feel like it). Just weird that it works so differently.

Posted by: Mijke at Jun 2, 2006 10:29:12 PM

Glad that the cancellation is sitting well with you. You prespective seems wise...way better to cancel than to recieve a negative. Good luck with scheduling! Keep the vodka handy. Let Charlie drink the rubbing alcohol; he doesn't know good stuff yet.

Posted by: Flicka at Jun 2, 2006 10:39:10 PM

I felt the exact same way starting our second adoption. If we never get picked (ie, get a good 'retrieval'?? :)), I would be okay.

I think that might make for an easier cycling all around. You may be more open to 'try' different things, or let a cycle go like you did this time.

I wish you a smooth scheduling for the next go-round!!!

Posted by: Lisa at Jun 2, 2006 10:48:59 PM

Do I see a theme here?

Sorry about the cancellation, glad you're okay with it.

Posted by: Jill at Jun 2, 2006 11:03:45 PM

I was thinking of a nice glass of Don Julio, however a frosty mug of cold, dead penis sounds much more fitting. Cheers!

Posted by: Sam at Jun 3, 2006 12:16:41 AM

I am sorry about your cancellation.

I could really use a dose of your good attitude... send some my way if you have some to spare.

Take care and hope you don't have to wait to long to cycle again.

Posted by: Soralis at Jun 3, 2006 1:19:44 AM

Well, bugger. Here's hoping that next time is different. And that that next time finds a good window in which to present itself. xoxox.

Posted by: Mrs. B. at Jun 3, 2006 4:15:41 AM

Here's hoping that the clinic will consider wait listing you for a later date. Glad to hear it is only a big glass of vodka, and not a frosty cold dead penis of a bender, because seriously? I'd rather blow one than drink one.

(Just don't tell my husband, because then he'd over a warm living one up for "my" pleasure.)

Posted by: Boulder at Jun 3, 2006 4:52:21 AM

I appreciate your laying out the protocols and lingo and acronyms for us in simple terms. The pain and disappointment in my life comes in a flavor other than infertility and I am frequently lost amongst protocol-speak. So a measure of understanding along with general cheering and wishing is a nice thing.

In awe over the encyclopedic memory that AR patients seem have about the numbers and wherefores associated with their (many) cycles. Is it kind of an adaptive response to the process or maybe is there software that helps? Quicken for Cyclists, so to speak?

Posted by: Marsha at Jun 3, 2006 5:03:20 AM

Shit, Julie, I am so sorry about the cancellation. Completely missed that one. I kept checking back but as I only saw the top half of the post when I did I missed the update.
You're right about the perspective, though I hope you did have that great big glass of vodka.
This stuff still hurts like hell, and I feel for you and Paul.
You're on to something about the Lupron - sthg like that happened to us as well, and we had an antagonist cycle (loved the name) for Polly. Yeah, those poor ovaries were just stunned. "What MORE can you do to me?" they bleated.

Posted by: Menita at Jun 3, 2006 7:36:02 AM

Hi, Never commented before... but I'm a long-time reader.

In so much as one can feel affection toward an IVF cycle, I loved my antagonist protocol. It worked and No Lupron! No lupron crazed killer moments. It was downright civilized.

Posted by: DeborahVA at Jun 3, 2006 8:05:15 AM

It's better to get pregnant in the fall, anyway. Being pregnant in July and August is not fun. Too hot and muggy, no matter what trimester you're in.

I really hope that the new protocol works like a charm, and you have a baby by Easter!

Posted by: Amy at Jun 3, 2006 8:57:55 AM

But what about me? Do I have to go an entire summer without reading about your IVF adventures? Where are my vicarious thrills? So help me, I'll start peeing on sticks myself.

It's going to be a long summer.

Posted by: chris at Jun 3, 2006 9:16:23 AM

Sorry to hear about your cancellation. I used the lupron "flare" (lower dose and shorter) protocol myself. (I'm not sure this is the best recommendation, as there are no babies here.) It's an extra injection per day, but I'm sure that wouldn't bother a pro like you.

Posted by: Leslie at Jun 3, 2006 9:40:23 AM

Talking out of my ass here, but what about an estrogen priming protocol? The Factor V probably complicates that....

Glad to hear you're staying away from the rubbing alcohol--it makes for such a nasty hangover.

Posted by: BrooklynGirl at Jun 3, 2006 11:26:26 AM

Sorry to hear about your cancellation; I missed the update and was hoping...

Good luck with the next cycle; may the scheduling gods be with you.

Posted by: Susan at Jun 3, 2006 11:55:16 AM

Having had a "nothing survived to transfer," I know whereof you speak. Cancellation still sucks, though.

Posted by: Suz at Jun 3, 2006 12:49:18 PM

All kidding aside, you are exhibiting a tremendously good attitude! I could certainly learn a thing or two from you (and, I usually do, reading your blog)! Either you're really in a good place, regardless of what happens down the line with future cycles, or you're on something that you're NOT sharing with your Internet friends. If it's the latter, come clean, my friend, come clean . . . we all could benefit a little.

Posted by: Stacey at Jun 3, 2006 2:17:33 PM

I was, in my IF days, a poor responder and did the protocol you mentioned, it's like doing an IUI only with a lot more mixing and more shots. I hope you won't have to wait - can you freeze and thaw instead?

Posted by: Avonlea at Jun 3, 2006 2:31:31 PM

I'm sorry you had to cancel. I am a long time reader...never commented. Anyway, I did an antagonist cycle with the pill. I too have Factor V & many other clotting problems. They put me on Lovenox while I was on the pill. It sucked doing all those extra shots, but it enabled us to start on a scheduled date. Also, my RE's office won't do ivf w/o some sort of ovary suppression. Good luck!

Posted by: Cara at Jun 3, 2006 2:47:39 PM

So sorry about the cancellation. Hope you won't mind if I offer my .02 cents -- but I would consider waiting until September to cycle again. Gives your body time to flush out the Lupron and respond better. In hindsight, if I could have waited longer between cycles I would have.

(I had better cycles and felt much better on the Cetrotide. Didn't change my lousy eggs, but I had much smoother cycles.)

Posted by: S. at Jun 3, 2006 3:44:55 PM

The cancellation *sucks*, but I'm so glad that Charlie's wonderful existence means you're coming at the whole thing from a completely different place. A much better place indeed. Wishing you all the best as you plan your next step!

Posted by: Shelley at Jun 3, 2006 4:09:18 PM

I was much chagrinned to hear of your cancellation. But I agree, the "bird in hand" theory helps take the edge and urgency off the disappointment.

Good luck with scheduling - I hope the planets align for you!

Posted by: Julia at Jun 3, 2006 5:08:28 PM

(Now that I think about it, "a round of penis" sounds disturbingly like something that should be served on a Ritz cracker.)

Posted by: Julie at Jun 3, 2006 7:20:39 PM

Some assvice here:

May I suggest the micro dose flare protocol??

I HIGHLY recommend it.

And EASY to schedule. (Can you take ANY BCP's? Like 9 days?)

Posted by: Laura at Jun 3, 2006 9:13:11 PM

My inlaws produced 7 children, and they have all obeyed the command to go forth and multiply (except us), and they all have the Aryan look, and talk about surreal. The inlaws 60th anniversary restaurant dinner was tonight, and I'm sitting in a room literally filled with blonde blueyed people who consider two months from sex to the positive test as "we tried for so long" with my two little Asian kids feeling so weird, and then to come home and read the infertilty blogs...

Posted by: lorrie at Jun 3, 2006 11:37:52 PM

Crap. I suppose I should be expecting this shit from you by now.

On the upside, I was successful with a no lupron/bcp cycle 40.6. My first IVF, I was cancelled on day 1, 'cause of a left over follicle. The next cycle I had 19 eggs at ER, 18 fertilized with ICSI, 5 transferred, b/b twins 33-weeks later. You do need a 24/7/365 clinic to do it though. I know you are probably thinking we're totally different 'cause no way in hell you would get that many eggs, but I had to deal with super-shit sperm that ICSI helped fertilize, but didn't help 3-day embryo growth.

I hope Charlie is cheering you up. It's a lot better than just hanging under the covers with the cat.

Thrice

Posted by: thrice at Jun 4, 2006 12:25:15 AM

We had to cancel our first cycle last month, and it's refreshing to read the reasons were much the same as yours. Vodka helped too :-)

Posted by: Paula at Jun 4, 2006 1:23:59 AM

Reading this reminds me of how badly IF stinks. It STINKS. Too bad you can't just drink the vodka and get knocked up. And figure out - a month or so later - that your period is late.

Your story is a lot like mine. Kinda sorta. Multiple rounds of IVF before I finally became pregnant. Premature delivery due to HELLP syndrome. (Very scary time). I too, was blessed with a beautiful blonde hair, blue eyed baby boy - born at the end of 2004. He stayed in the NICU for ~6 weeks. His middle name is "Charles" after his dad, "Charlie". The difference in our stories is that my little Charlie (which, I actually do call him that sometimes) was born with two younger sisters. Who now gang up on him and give him hell 7 days a week.

I hope your next cycle goes smoothly, whenever that next cycle happens. I hope there are no cancellations ... just an enthusiastic follicular response ... a batch of healthy embryos ... a strong BFP ... and a healthy 9-months, resulting in a little sibling for Charlie.

Until then, enjoy your vodka.

Posted by: Jen3 at Jun 4, 2006 1:39:49 AM

Hi, i'm a British lurker. Wishing you all the best for your next cycle whenever that may be. In relation to a previous post, i use pvc free bottles and cups. Didn't know if this may be useful to you while waiting for the stainless steel. They are probably available in the US but here's the link anyway.
http://greenbaby.com/

Posted by: becky at Jun 4, 2006 2:25:43 AM

Cheers, Zuulie. I'm still sorry your cycle had to be cancelled, but I'm glad you're not quite as miserable about it as you have a right to be. Take care of yourself.

Posted by: Mags at Jun 4, 2006 3:38:35 AM

Long time reader, first time poster from Perth, Australia here.

Sorry to hear about your cancellation but something in your post struck a chord with me.

My Husband works away 2 out of 3 weeks so all our AC treatment has been scheduled with the anticipation he will not be with me so we had his wrigglers frozen months ago. I have had 3 medicated IUI cycles and 1 IVF cycle for which he has NEVER been home at the critical time.

Could you schedule your June cycle anyway, even though Paul may not be around??

Just a thought. Good Luck!

Posted by: Jodes at Jun 4, 2006 4:03:30 AM

Sorry about the cycle canceling, but sounds like there is the hope of a plan. We did the antagon thing minus IVF. We did "natural conception", you know as natural as it is when they say take this shot and have sex at this time this time and this time. And have fun while doing it damnit! Anyway, the Antagon worked for me, and I hope it will work for you. (I would cross fingers and legs, but seeing how close I am to giving birth to this antagon baby, I'm keeping my legs wide open. ;) but fingers are definitely crossed!)

Posted by: Suzanne at Jun 4, 2006 12:19:46 PM

I'm sorry about the cancellation. Shite, that sucks. Switching protocols is definitely something to consider. Once I got away from long Lupron, my ovaries definitely stepped up. I hope the same holds true for you, and I hope the scheduling stuff works out, too.

Posted by: amanda at Jun 4, 2006 5:55:48 PM

hey, Julie...

my first Ivf, I responded poorly....like 1 follie...they cancelled, and said, what the hell, lets try an IUI?? which of course didnt work, with lazy little guys....

the next IVF, they cut my Lupron in half (I think it was 5 units, and then 2.5) and then 8 amps of gonal f daily....yes, I said 8. it is a lot, and some fellow ivf'ers had a heart attack over it, but I ended up with 23 eggs at retrieval.....I got my daughter from that one, and 6 for the freezer (which didnt survive ;(

so we're starting from square one again....I wish I had your positive attitude about it tough!!! keep writing, maybe it will sink in....

take care

Posted by: Patty at Jun 4, 2006 9:41:25 PM

It sux having to wait, so I hope you find a way to take the June date. I'm recovering from my fourth miscarriage, and can't try again until August, after some tests. I feel like I've already lost a whole year on this waiting game, and still am no closer.

Would you mind some company for your bender? I'm a total lightweight at this point.

And the Ritz cracker thing....eww.

Posted by: Michelle at Jun 4, 2006 9:50:15 PM

awwww SHIT! You might be taking the high road of togetherness and non-bitterness... but I hope it's alright if I get pissed at the IVF gods on your behalf. Fuckers.

I found it interesting reading your take on a cancelled cycle... I found that my cancelled devastated me much more than the lone little embryo that didn't make it in the previous cycle. I sort of felt like... I can't even make a freakin' FOLLICLE... how the hell am I supposed to create and sustain an embryo.

As always, reading a fellow IVF'rs journey is ever hepful and enligthening. I've learned more from your blog (among many) than I ever learned from my so-called RE's. Go Dr.Julie. hmmm... maybe you could replace Dr. Google...

Posted by: Manuela at Jun 4, 2006 11:50:48 PM

Well, I was going to ask about the whole freezing of Paul's contribution, because I am instant gratification girl myself, but then I remembered: a gazillion years of experience.

So I'm assuming there's absolutely no aspect of this deal, however random, you haven't considered. Which means there's some perfectly good reason not to freeze that I'm just too darn lazy to find via google. (Also: I'm scared of what the search terms might turn up. Those were, er, quite the links there.)

Posted by: Jody at Jun 5, 2006 12:50:40 AM

I had good results from an antagonist protocol (12 eggs, 11 fertilized) after two poor responses to Lupron IVFs (IVF #1 - 6 eggs, 3 fert; IVF #2 - 4 eggs, 3 fert). I was convinced that after the six months of Lupron Depot that I took after my first laparoscopy for stage 3 endo, my ovaries would completely shut down from the first whiff of Lupron.

I hope you'll have similar good results from the antagonist protocol. Also, I didn't get any of the bad side effects from Ganirelix that I usually got from Lupron.

Posted by: Steph McG at Jun 5, 2006 8:33:16 AM

I second your thoughts on junking the long lupron protocol. The more suppressed you are, the more stims they end up throwing at you, and the more overcooked and fragmented the embryos get in the end. At least that's been my experience. Never did antagonists, but not dealing with lupron sounds like a lovely way to start a cycle.

Good luck whenever you go a-cycling again.

Posted by: Lynn at Jun 5, 2006 10:33:06 AM

I am very sorry about your cancelled cycle. How disappointing and frustrating. I hope you can try again sooner rather than later. Best of luck for the next time. And give Charlie some extra cuddles,

Posted by: SheilaC at Jun 5, 2006 12:51:51 PM

Glad you had the vodka reserves ready and I'm sorry about the cancelled cycle. I hope the scheduling snafu can be resolved so that you might cycle this summer. Now on this penis soup thing...do you have nutritional information on that? Because if my husband hits another blood vessel doing PIO, that may be what he is eating for dinner.

Posted by: Beth at Jun 5, 2006 3:55:28 PM

Coming in late to this...
but just another person who has had success with the antagonist protocol (at a youthful 32, my ovaries decided to take early retirement and Lupron just put them two steps closer to the grave). While I ultimately conceived via donor embryos, I did get more/better eggs retrieved on this protocol than on the Lupron protocol.
Plus, any protocol that has the word "antagonist" just has to be good.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Posted by: Shauna at Jun 9, 2006 3:01:23 AM

will you be my RE?

Posted by: babybab at Jun 15, 2006 7:15:17 AM

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