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07/18/2008

In which I lose my Kool

I don't normally respond publicly to crotchety comments, being for the most part a hundred-flowers-bloomer, only, you know, without the appalling violence and the destruction of an entire nation's ideological integrity, but I'm going to do it now, because one I received the other day has really gotten to me.

I've had three wonderful all natural vaginal births with midwives and the experiences were transcendant. It is not something I would have given up because of a remote statistical risk that something even more remote would happen. And I certainly would not have given it up because I was being pressured by authoritarian doctors who are clearly practicing CYA medicine.

You're a smart cookie, Julie, so stop drinking the Koolaid.

Hey!  Kool-Aid!

Oh, yeeaaaaaaaaah.

Heykoolaid But that's Doctor Kool-Aid to you, missy.

I'll start with the commenter's last line first.  Let us leave aside for the moment the obvious problem with the metaphor.  On the gestational diabetes diet, which is supplemented twice daily with insulin, I assure you that I am consuming little in the way of cookies and even less in the way of Kool-Aid.  This single line immediately inclines me to disregard the commenter's...advice, would you call it?...because, duh, with her words alone she is obviously trying to kill me.

But like I said, I'm a hundred-flowers-bloomer, so I want to give her comment fair consideration.  So let's skip back to the beginning.  "I've had three wonderful all-natural vaginal births with midwives and the experiences were transcendent."  Well, all right, I can't immediately see how someone with this experience might be inclined to identify with my situation, but maybe there's some common thread there...

Let's see.  Three births?  Nope.  Just the one for me.  Wonderful?  Uhhhh.  No.  Vaginal?  Wasn't an option from week 20 onward.  Midwives?  Hahahaha, ohhhh.  All-natural?  Well, no more so than whatever the hell Kraft used to put in its now-discontinued Berry Blue.  (My money's on sugar, powdered rhinoceros horn, purest crystal meth, and either curaçao or windshield wiper fluid.  Or possibly engine coolant, because despite some hot childhood summers on the Mississippi delta I don't remember my radiator ever overheating.)

As to the transcendent part, on that we almost converge, because between the demerol, the mag, and the adrenaline born of pure panic, I was high as a goddamned kite.  So I'll let the other dissimilarities go.  Obviously we are steadfast comrades happily traveling a similar reproductive path.  Let us proceed!

The commenter continues: "It is not something I would have given up because of a remote statistical risk that something even more remote would happen."

I'm not sure where to go with this one.  I could talk about how infertile people seem, in my observational experience, to be more risk averse than the general population when it comes to pregnancy and delivery.  (I leave it to the reader to tease out the ever-so-complicated reasons that might pertain.)  I could talk about my own obstetrical history, which reads overall like a Ripley's Believe This Completely Unlikely but Totally True Wack-Ass Shit or Not of conception, gestation, and birth, and how even in a pregnancy that has gone thus far without any hitch whatsoever, I find it hard to leave much to chance.  Or I could simply point that the commenter and I are different people, and that reasonable people can disagree without presuming each other ill informed, reckless, stupid, or all of the above.

There's still a bit more, just before the part where the commenter offers me a sugar coma on a chased silver platter: "And I certainly would not have given it up because I was being pressured by authoritarian doctors who are clearly practicing CYA medicine."

There's an awful lot of presumption in that statement.  I would not call my doctors authoritarian by any means, nor have I felt pressured.  I've found them to be conscientious in informing me of the risks as they understand them, but I've also found them willing to follow my cues, and to put off making any recommendations until the last minute.  ("After all, even if we do schedule a C-section," Tuesday's doctor told me cheerfully, "your body might well have other ideas before you've even packed a bag."  Could be.  We all know my body's just brimming with good ideas.)

As to the charge that they are practicing cover-your-ass medicine, I don't know that I agree.  There is perhaps the smallest kernel of truth in the charge, because what doctor wants to expose a patient to additional risk, whether the reason be ethical or financial?  But my stronger conviction is that they're practicing cover-Julie's-and-her-baby's-respective-asses medicine.  I've said several times that I'm not all that picky about how the baby is born, that it is more important to me to minimize the risk of harm — from uterine rupture to neonatal injury, encompassing an awful lot in between — to both of us than it is to have "a wonderful all-natural vaginal birth."  I appreciate it that they're taking my statements seriously, which is frankly more than the commenter has done.  And before I provoke a spate of accusations that I cannot possibly have adequately considered the risks of a caesarean birth, well, let me just say that at this point, given what I've learned about my particular situation, you pick your poison.  Or your flavor of Kool-Aid.  (Sharkleberry Fin, straight up, no contest.)

Speaking of Kool-Aid, I am condensing the part of this rant I'd planned to devote to the charge that by even considering a surgical delivery, I must have bought into some Jonestown-style delusion.  I will say in short that it's a tired analogy, an insulting premise, and an outrageous aspersion to cast upon a blameless "fruit"-"flavored" decoction.  Why, if I were Dr. Portly Brimming Vessel Strangely Endowed with Fully Articulated Limbs But Inexplicably Denied Cranial Sutures, I'd sue.  Especially since the poor misguided dead in Guyana drank not Kool-Aid but Flavor Aid, a fact the good people at Kraft would thank you to remember.

Finally — finally! — I'll wrap up by saying that I've learned something priceless from my own experience and from the stories other readers have generously shared.  Ready?  It's this: If you happened to get the three glorious vaginal births of your dreams, or the fairy tale pregnancy, or the easy conception, or no miscarriages, or, hell, a live baby of any description, it's not necessarily because you were smart or careful or diligent or determined, even if you were indeed all of these things.  Some of them may have contributed to your positive outcome, but ultimately, it's because you were really fucking lucky.  And using that great good fortune as a stick to poke others with isn't what I'd call sweet, cool, or particularly refreshing.  (Though even I must admit that it sounds somewhat more appetizing than something called Pink Swimmingo, which I cannot imagine tasting like anything but brackish water, shrimp, and a froth of Everglades scum.)

SPECIAL BONUS MINI-RANT: Another comment that made me see Rock-a-dile Red!  "I was seeing a midwife, suspected GD...went on to birth a 10.10 baby at home no worries at all. my biggest baby, my easiest best, most rewarding birth. Having him at home definatly lowered my risks for all nightmares that you speak of with larger babies...Then there is the whole idea that GD is not actually a real thing - OF COURSE the way your body metabolizes sugar changes when you are pregnant. Has your doctor addressed your diet at all or is he just planning the section because thats easier and avoids actual relationship with the patient?   Don't buy into this garbage line - all that matters is a healthy baby. YOU matter, the way you are treated at your birth matters and will affect you the rest of your life. Fight for what you want - demand it - don't give in to the rhetoric."

Please, what I want is to be given the benefit of the doubt: that I have sought and secured good medical care; that I am capable of making informed decisions; that like any other self-actualized human being I would insist on being treated with respect and consideration; and that I am not weakly capitulating because I am intimidated by a man in a white coat.  Or an overflowing glass pitcher.  Whichever.

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Comments (293)

Christ on a cracker do these people not READ your blog AT ALL !?

SHIT !!

K, I don't have anything intelligent to say, I just felt the need to rant a tad for you.

SHHHHIIIIITTT !!

Posted by: D-Hor at Jul 18, 2008 11:34:53 AM

God, I love your blog! My wife asked why I read your blog, to see if she should read it as well, and I quickly responded that it was because you never cease to make me laugh! I love that! I hope that you continue to blog after your amazing, wonderful, healthy baby arrives any-old-way birth, because I would hate to lose the humor in my life!
Oh, and now I really want some kool-aid. thanks for that.

Side note: we're home birth planning types and would never presume to know more about what is going on with your body than you and your doctors. Um, duh, am I in your life? No, I'm not... I can enjoy your blog and the ways you are different from me as well as the ways we are similar. Boo hiss to people who cannot.

Posted by: Kathryn at Jul 18, 2008 11:36:35 AM

You go, Julie! I loved this post.
I can't believe people who preach not to follow any agenda that your doctor might have, but actually those same people want you to follow THEIR agenda. How is that any better?
It may be very hard for those commenters to understand, but some people don't WANT an all natural birth. It's not our DREAM to have that happen. I would never in a million years want to deliver my baby at home. And heaven forbid something happens during the birth that you didn't plan on ... well, it doesn't ruin the rest of your life. It doesn't ruin your relationship with your baby. I doesn't even need to make you feel bad at all. It just doesn't.

Posted by: Mary O at Jul 18, 2008 11:37:13 AM

"It's this: If you happened to get the three glorious vaginal births of your dreams, or the fairy tale pregnancy, or the easy conception, or no miscarriages, or, hell, a live baby of any description, it's not necessarily because you were smart or careful or diligent or determined, even if you were indeed all of these things. Some of them may have contributed to your positive outcome, but ultimately, it's because you were really fucking lucky."

If you're not getting laid this late in the gestational game, can I come over and satisfy you simply on the merit of this comeback please? pretty pretty please?

LOL ;-)

Posted by: Hero at Jul 18, 2008 11:37:29 AM

I don't know why women do this to each other. Sorry you were a drive-by victim. FWIW, I'm a very crunchy mama, also three deliveries by midwives, breastfed for roughly a hundred years, yadda yadda yadda. I fail to see how my experience gives me ANY RIGHT to judge yours.
I wish you and your baby all the best. However that happens.

Posted by: Kira at Jul 18, 2008 11:37:32 AM

Oh, and I LOVE your images! Never going to be able to get rid of the idea of the Dr. Kool-Aid with the forceps. Good one!

Posted by: Kathryn at Jul 18, 2008 11:37:50 AM

Long-time reader, first time commenter. Just wanted to say that I think you are a wise, wise woman. I absolutely love reading your words. There are always bits that make me laugh, bits that make me think, and bits that make me admire your thought process and your writing even more. Wishing you a beautifully uncomplicated birth, however it happens!
Deb (a retired delivery nurse)

Posted by: Deb at Jul 18, 2008 11:41:58 AM

I will never understand why people feel they have to be so opinionated about other people's decisions. Birthing choices, co-sleeping vs crying-it-out, breast-feeding vs formula...just a few of the child-related decisions people make. We are all parents/adults trying to do the best for our families...why can't we just support each other instead of giving unwarranted (and offensive!!) advice!

Posted by: hilary at Jul 18, 2008 11:47:04 AM

The mind simply reels.

I agree - I hate getting beaten over the head with everyone else's dumb luck - ain't my csection scar nor my torn perineum honey. Last time I checked - my brain and ability to make coherent decisions were still intact.

Six csections chickapea- and not because the doctor told me I couldn't do it the other way, because I TRIED it the other way and this way actually works. (The other wouldn't and offers me a rather grim mortality rate for both parties) - oval head, triangular hole kind of thing. Started with a midwife too - after my first L&D, she agreed that was NOT for me. Funny thing is - by the end, I would have rather done it at home by myself squatting with a piece of leather between my teeth, but I digress . . .

Pink Swimmingo isn't so bad, great color; but, Sharkleberry Fin is definitely the flagship of the KoolAid fleet. Word.

Posted by: JuliaS at Jul 18, 2008 11:47:08 AM

Delurking to say:

While I've known for quite sometime that this might be the most eloquent of IF blogs -- I had NO idea how kick-ass you'd be at ranting -- I loved your response -- and I have very little to add being simply on the IF road, no pregnancies to my name...

Julie, I'm certain you don't need affirmation of this by now -- but your blog is wonderful to visit and read.

Best,

Pam

Posted by: Pam/Wordgirl at Jul 18, 2008 11:47:28 AM

Oh my God, I am SO THIRSTY.

You're awesome, Julie. I'm wishing you the very, very best with this one.

Posted by: caro at Jul 18, 2008 11:47:38 AM

Julie, this is my first comment here. I've been reading your blog ever since I found I was pregnant in February (I even went through and read through all your archives because i was so intrigued by your story).

Now that that's out of the way...today must be the day for whack ass comments where people make assumptions on things without knowing all the facts. Another blog I read is dealing with an ingnorant commenter.

Anyway, I applaud your response. It made me laugh while you made your point. You rock.

Posted by: Sicilian Mama at Jul 18, 2008 11:50:12 AM

Why do people assume that all doctors push for a repeat c-section? My doctor presented me with the facts and numbers and then said that she'd support my decision, whether it be to labour or to elect a repeat c-section.

As it turns out, I got exactly what I wanted: a healthy baby. The fact that I elected to have a repeat c-section is completely irrelevant to me. And the footnote that the doctor told me during the procedure that she was glad I didn't labour because my uterine wall was very thin at my previous scar was a small vindication, but was just that, a footnote.

Posted by: Shawna at Jul 18, 2008 11:52:29 AM

Never ceases to amaze me how people always know what's best for everybody else. Sadly, they never seem to use consideration or respect in their rush to give their valuable opinion.

After lurking on your blog for a little while and back reading, I'd guess you could decide for yourself & would not offer my opinion. You do seem intelligent and articulate enough to be able to deal with medical choices :-)

Posted by: antikva at Jul 18, 2008 11:52:34 AM

Julie- I cannot imagine how those people can post those comments on your blog. Did they not bother to go and read ANYTHING you have written about Charlie's birth or your reproductive history at all??

I like, especially how the last comment says, "Don't buy into this garbage line: all that matters is a healthy baby. YOU matter, the way you are treated at your birth matters and will affect you the rest of your life".

Anyone who knows the least bit about infertility and the struggles to have a healthy pregnancy and baby knows that, to have a healthy baby, we don't care if they have to tie us to a tree and let a band of wild Gypsies deliver our babies.

Doesn't matter the least bit to *me* if I am tossed aside a bit to assure the health of my baby. And, it isn't fear that drives this need. It's natural. Any mother would (usually) sacrifice their lives for the health and safety of their child.

Sacrificing a little comfort or "trancendance"? Kinda a no-brainer.

Rock on with your bad self, Julie. You'll make the right choices for you no matter that people understand or not.

Posted by: Stephanie at Jul 18, 2008 11:52:56 AM

THANK YOU!

I get so sick of the at home birth people who are so tyrannical in their beliefs. Like me and my child are going to die if I'm induced.

I was induced at 37 weeks with my first child because of major medical reasons. With my second child, I was induced because (gasp) I wanted to be. I got so many judgmental comments from people who couldn't believe I would "Put my child in danger."

You know what parenting has taught me? You have to do what works for you and your family and everyone else can suck it.

Posted by: Emily at Jul 18, 2008 11:57:16 AM

wow. wow is really all i can think. I shudder to think these women are walking among us.

I HAVE had 3 healthy pregnancies and 3 vaginal births IN A HOSPITAL. The third one - I almost died in that one from a uterus that wouldn't contract down or deliver the placenta after the baby was born. So, um yeah. I'm all for hospitals and the whole team of people ready to SAVE YOUR LIFE IF YOU NEED IT. Had I been bleeding out my vagina several quarts/pints/gallons every second while at home? Goodness knows. I imagine an ambulance could have gotten me to the hospital in time but WHY CHANCE IT? And we had no reason to think this would happen, it just did.

So - I always error on the side of caution (or just listen to the drs) when there is a life on the line, or if maybe there might be a chance a life will be on the line.

Posted by: VHMPrincess at Jul 18, 2008 11:57:52 AM

Wow. I don't know how you so eloquently respond to comments like that. I think I would just have to hit delete a few times and call it a day. You say exactly the type of responses that I wish I was clever enough to come up with!
:) Becky
http://www.stinkylemsky.typepad.com/

Posted by: Becky at Jul 18, 2008 12:01:35 PM

Julie, you have done spectacularly throughout this entire pregnancy. Gestational Diabetes is nothing to shake a stick at, let alone getting pregnant via IVF/donor egg scenario. You are awesome. You have overcome so many obstacles throughout the past 5 or 6 years, and you should be damned proud of yourself.

It's a shame that some women feel the need to express bass-ackward "support" in a manner that not only insults, but also pretty much conveys to every woman who has ever had a C-section (no matter what the reason) that her decision was wrong. It's true that some Dr.'s practice CYA medicine, but not all of them do. And maybe not every woman out there has a high tolerance for risk. If a woman's pelvis is too small for a natural birth, then it's too small. Why risk it? If a baby is in distress, why risk it? If the fetus is known to be big (via ultrasound), why risk it?

I know several women who have had *scheduled* c-sections, and they were all very happy with their experiences. I'm sure there are some women who have had bad experiences, but that's true with everything in life. It's a crapshoot.

Some women can birth babies without blinking an eye. Others have issues with the natural birthing process. It's not an option for most women, when it comes to giving birth to a healthy baby. Why risk it?

Posted by: Sarah at Jul 18, 2008 12:03:55 PM

Thanks again for the laugh!!!

I'm just always amazed that in this world of 'options', people still want to shove everyone down the same path. For anyone to presume you haven't done your research is hilarious. My God, you found a website for Sharkleberry Fin! That must have taken HOURS alone! :) My guess is you've looked into GD and c-section risks at least as thoroughly.

My fave line is "Some of them may have contributed to your positive outcome, but ultimately, it's because you were really fucking lucky." Women in the IF world would love to have that experience; would love to go thru pregnancy not expecting the other shoe to drop at any moment, would love to plan a 'transcendent' birth experience, etc. But even conceiving is a miracle, and most of us just don't want to test are luck any further.

And congrats again on making it into safe territory!

Posted by: becky at Jul 18, 2008 12:04:25 PM

First off, bragging about your plethora of successful pregnancies on an IF blog seems a bit tasteless.....but, y'know, to each his/her own.

Personally, I don't care how I get a baby. If they want to pull a kid from my nose, they can give it a shot if it has the best chance of making me the mother of a healthy kid. I want a baby so badly that I totally can understand the grief that drives a woman to steal one in a hospital. So, if my doctor who has numerous degrees and *my trust* tells me he wants me to hang from the ceiling like a bat while he wears an orangutan costume during delivery, I'll assume that's the best thing for me and start working my calf muscles to keep a good grip on the rafters.

Posted by: Patty at Jul 18, 2008 12:08:42 PM

BRILLIANT! You are my hero.

Posted by: Bean at Jul 18, 2008 12:09:08 PM

I am SO tired of these fucktards preaching about their perfect crunchy-assed, midwife, bathtub births & their "breastmilk only" feedings. And to do it with such condescending attitude! Don't get me started!

Posted by: heidi at Jul 18, 2008 12:11:43 PM

Come on, it's just the first rung on the mommy drive-by ladder. Let's question how you're getting the baby out. Then how are you going to feed him/her? Where is he/she going to sleep? How far apart is he/she from his/her siblings? Where's the hat in the winter, where's the hat in the summer? (F*ck, some people are obsessed about putting hats on babies!) I think we all need t-shirts that says, "Opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one and they all stink."

Posted by: gerette at Jul 18, 2008 12:11:44 PM

Eloquently put. Don't stand around for one second allowing anyone to criticize how you choose (or need) to bring your baby in this world. Most important is that your sweetpea is safe and in your arms unharmed after whatever delivery is required/wanted.

Posted by: Jennifer at Jul 18, 2008 12:12:03 PM

Speaking as a fellow infertile...how dare someone think that what worked for them is perfect for everyone else? Did she go through years of fertility treatments, miscarriages and fear? Probably not since her life seems to be so damn perfect. I also had GD, and yes it is very real...I had a little baby, pushed like hell for hours and still ended up with a c-section. My dr has said absolutely NO to another try at natural childbirth. I trust him and believe what he says. Why would I want to put myself through the torture and possible risks again? You have your beautiful baby anyway you want. As long as you have a healthy baby and you are healthy who cares how it gets here??

Posted by: Kristie at Jul 18, 2008 12:12:12 PM

I, too, had a transcendent birth experience: We both lived.

Posted by: Barbara at Jul 18, 2008 12:13:07 PM

Oh, Oh, can I respond?

I had a midwife. I love her. She caught my son, and was with us as he died. She will be with us at a next birth. Which will be at the hospital - because, you know, as a result of pre-eclampsia, I almost died last time. The baby did die.

There is an underlying sentiment in these comments, that always bothers me. It's this. That birth is a self actualizing experience for mum. And I was so thankful for a midwife who told me repeatedly - birth is about nothing more than a mum having a healthy baby.

So, when I look at women like this, who have never walked a mile in our shoes, but are so willing to dispense their advice, I'm thankful that they have never been there. To have a child die is the worst experience in the world. There is no pain like it. It is the closest to hell that I hope I ever come again.

But honestly, no one stamps c-section baby on your child's head as they leave the delivery room. There are no medals for doing it a particular way. And to suggest that you have any experience with a high risk delivery, or that your doctor's are providing less than good quality care.

Yes, midwifery care is different than standard medical care. Which is why I will have to see an OB, a MFM and an Internist with a next pregnancy. Because, my midwife would not take me as a client.

FWIW - I wrote about this here.
http://mrsspitspouts.blogspot.com/2008/04/this-i-believe.html

Posted by: Mrs.Spit at Jul 18, 2008 12:13:19 PM

Trancendent my ass.

As a woman who had a c-section and then a VBAC...vaginal births are crap! They let the epidural wear off so I could feel to push...as if I wanted THAT! Then of course, all body parts are thereafter NOT the same, in fact ruined. OK only the parts "down there". I would have passed if I knew.

Every woman is different. Julie you are so funny and awesome when outraged.

You go do your thing.

Posted by: greenie3 at Jul 18, 2008 12:13:26 PM

Yep, those comments were pretty insulting. Why do people need to come here and try to make you feel bad? Assholes.

Posted by: kristylynne at Jul 18, 2008 12:13:36 PM

You tell em !! God I hate hearing about blissful pregnancies and deliveries and I am very cautious to share my horror tales w/ first timers out of respect. Some people are just stupid, dont let them get to you!

on a side note, having been through GD three times, all 3 filled w/ high risk factors, kool aid can be your friend....they make single packets that have splenda and I tend to use splenda at home in most recipes anyway to keep type 2 away for as long as possible since I'm borderline now. so dont give up on sweet tasting food! you can still enjoy food while having GD...but that comment your blog addresses about GD if bullshit, and I'm not one to use such harsh words!! :-)

Posted by: amy at Jul 18, 2008 12:15:07 PM

Unfortunately, you're like a celebrity with it's papparazzi.
Beucase you put yourself out there - you attract attention. Both wanted an unwanted.
I think in some odd way these women were trying to be supportive but came off pretentious and accusatory.

In the end - it's your body - you're informed and whatever happens...happens. None of us in the blogosphere can control that.

Good luck with the crazies.

Posted by: Jen at Jul 18, 2008 12:16:15 PM

I hope you don't mind me linking you from my blog post today. You said so many things I (a GD, due in October, hoping-for-a-repeat-vaginal-but-willing-to-have-a-section-if necessary mommy) wanted to say, but better.

Posted by: Kristy at Jul 18, 2008 12:19:11 PM

You're awesome. Gold star (of the highest order) for your analysis and delivery of this ever so perceptive and perfect retort. ESPECIALLY Your "finally - finally" paragraph. Oh my. You're good. I am wishing you the best.

Posted by: Mar at Jul 18, 2008 12:19:50 PM

Hear! Hear! There's nothing like a pregnant woman to bring out the opinions of the masses on everything from where to buy maternity clothes to how they say YOUR birth should go. I enjoyed your logical response to someone's narrowed view.

Posted by: chelsea at Jul 18, 2008 12:20:30 PM

I hate it when people do something fairly commonplace and then act like they invented the cure for cancer. I'm guessing that chick doesn't have much in her life to brag about, so she's had to resort to inflating every one of her accomplishments to massive proportions in her mind. Tell her to take her magic vagina elsewhere.

Posted by: Karla at Jul 18, 2008 12:20:56 PM

Bravo. Your response was both eloquent and classy. I especially appreciate your point that because one has had 3 transcendant home births does not mean that she is more diligent with her healthcare team or that she cares better for herself whilst pregnant. It's dumb f-ing luck. I would give anything for a frickin' homebirth with no problems. Hell, I would give anything for one live baby. But I got neither and will probably be subject to another c-section should I ever get pregnant again so I don't kill the next baby or myself. Or jump off a bridge waiting for a live baby to be born.

So dear commenter who caused this kick-ass post, take your transcendent home births and shove them up your vi-jay-jay and stop gloating. It's impolite to gloat. And be thankful you were never the "remote statistical risk". Because having dead babies ain't that fun.

Posted by: CLC at Jul 18, 2008 12:22:17 PM

You are made of awesome.

Posted by: anne nahm at Jul 18, 2008 12:22:46 PM

I've had a natural, birth center delivery with a midwife. I've also had an umedicated delivery in the hospital, and two medicated (epidurals) deliveries in the hospital. I have felt incredibly lucky each time that my baby was healthy and that I remained healthy. Now pregnant with my 5th (and last) baby, I worry more than ever about possible complications. I am all for midwives, and unmedicated births, but to be honest, who the heck cares once the baby is actually born? My sister has had 3 c-sections and there is no difference between how she feels about her kids and how I feel about mine. (contrary to the comment of one from Rikki Lakes Documentary The Business of Being Born where it is stated that in the animal world if the offspring is removed via c-section the mother will reject her baby...not sure why they felt the need to even bring that up...). Anyways, I see no need for you to take unnecessary risks. If you are comfortable with your Dr. and his/her opinions then you should follow their advice and not worry about having some beautiful vaginal delivery. (I remember when I took Bradley classes they kept pointing out how many women had Orgasms during delivery! what-ever). :)

Posted by: Gina at Jul 18, 2008 12:24:31 PM

Oh dear. I'm as crunchy as the next person (I took hypnobirthing and it worked- really- at least until my son started to signal to me all was not well. I've also witnessed the unmedicated birth of an 11 pound infant.) I've also seen the other side (the patient who was a quad due to a c-spine injury at birth when doc let mom try and deliver his 13 lb body vaginally.)

What the commenters may not understand is that although Mother Nature generally does a bang-up job of perpetuating the species, sometimes she truly does need help. Even Ina May Gaskin has a 2% c-section rate. And even she refers moms with Gestational Diabetes to the OB. And her mom's generally don't start out with majorly effed up bodies in the first place, like we lucky infertiles.

A provider worth their salt (and I include not only medical professionals, but CPMs like Ina May), will understand not only the textbook knowledge to keep mom and babe safe (like GD is REAL), but be willing to listen to a mother and understand where she comes from emotionally (like IF hell and an unexpected and dangerous tumble into the land of preeclampsia). Emotions effect birth outcomes. You can't erase years of grief with a snap of a finger or a nice strong beta. What a shame some women are unable to walk a mile in another's shoes.

Natural childbirth was about giving women CHOICES when before they had none, and honoring the experience they desired to have. How sad that so many use their natural birth experiences as a means to inflate their own worthiness over others.

There are plenty of women who approach childbirth without carefully choosing a provider or researching their options. Julie ain't one of them, darlings. Treating those who are less informed like stupid children who need to be told what to do, and by you, and only your way, didn't work for the docs doing Twilight Sleep in the 50s, and it isn't wooing anyone to your cause today. The goal is to empower women to make choices that they can live with, not make them feel horrible for desiring a medicated labor because you were able to achieve a "transcendant birth."

Posted by: mrs spock at Jul 18, 2008 12:25:12 PM

Man, the 'tude would have gotten to me without all the extra idiocy. Yikes.

Flame on, lady!

Posted by: Maria at Jul 18, 2008 12:25:51 PM

aaaaaaaaaaaand I finally delurk. How fucking common is cord strangulation during labor? Pretty remote, I'd say. But it does happen, and all the crunchy granola earth mother bullshit won't help you if it happens to you. And that is what it means where there is a "remote chance" - it WILL happen to SOMEONE. It almost happened to me. I was lucky I was in the hospital with a fetal heart monitor, otherwise I would have been making funeral arrangements rather than learning to nurse. Stupid people with no fucking understanding of the principles of risk analysis piss me off. It's a function of likelihood AND IMPACT, people! For the impact alone, I am willing to have my next kid surgically removed through my ass without drugs, as long as I get to take him home.

Posted by: jennifer at Jul 18, 2008 12:27:51 PM

Julie-

I had 2 C-Sections, as I have Lupus. So many people had an opinion about it and my not breast-feeding. ( I have no immune system so bf was pointless.) These idiots were telling me my boys would not bond to me. Really? They are 5.5 and 2.5 and I never even pee alone! My sister had HELLP with her 1st pregnancy and delivered at 31 weeks. We almost lost them both. Her 2nd pregnancy went well, but her doctor wanted a repeat section, which she did. Thank God, her uterus had not been attended to properly and most likely would have ruptured with pushing. She recently had a complete hysterectomy at 35.
As so many people have said, Do what's right for you. And I can tell you that as for me and I think most people(maybe, hopefully?) have an easier repeat section. I was much better on the 2nd one and the pain was so much less! Good drugs let me sleep well. Now shall we all offer our opinions on whether or not you should have the baby stay in your room or not? That should bring out the whacked KoolAid drinkers!

Posted by: Jenna at Jul 18, 2008 12:28:50 PM

It makes me so annoyed when people in a group I identify with behave badly. Thanks, fellow-pro-natural-birthers, for making us all look bad. Obviously, Julie, you are making the right decisions for yourself and your family. You know that. And we know that. But our opinions don't - and shouldn't! - matter.

(For the record, I dreamed of a transcendent natural waterbirth at home, and ended up with a c-section for breech twins at 36 weeks. It was not in the least transcendent, but I got some pretty fantastic babies out of it.)

Posted by: uccellina at Jul 18, 2008 12:32:08 PM

I was just going to quote the part Hero mentioned. I swear to god, dude. I am going to have that tattooed across my back in Old English script.

Posted by: Sara at Jul 18, 2008 12:33:13 PM

Ditto, ditto and DITTO.

I guess the only substantive thing I can add to all these lovely comments is to say this:

While I respect the impact and importance of the delivery method and delivery experience that these other women have had, I have to say that for some of us (perhaps you included?), the actual experience has not had the impact (or more specifically to me: it's just not important) in terms of my mothering experience. I wish that they would respect that, too.

I've had an induced, epidural birth (it was just lovely, thanks for asking) and a c-section birth (due to breech presentation) and I wouldn't have had the experiences any other way. I don't feel like a failure because I had a c-section, nor did it impact my bonding with my daughter.

And if I were to have a 3rd baby (NOT planning on it), I would most likely have a repeat c-section.

Posted by: BethanyWD at Jul 18, 2008 12:35:50 PM

Is the point of having a baby the HAVING part, and not the BABY part?! Oh good lord, I've been robbed!! I had 3 c-sections - 1 emergency, one planned, 1 absolutely-no-freaking-way you're doing this vaginally (and BTW, no more babies for you!) My stupid sister who has 2 teenagers (both vaginal births) actually said to me that I hadn't really given birth because my kids came out the front door instead using the basement walkout. Yeah, well whose 15 year old already has his own probation officer? Hmmm? (I know, one has nothing to do with the other, but it shut her up.)

Julie, a healthy baby is the destination. How you get there is irrelevant.

Posted by: Dorothy at Jul 18, 2008 12:36:11 PM

I always love the "GD isnt' real" line. Yes, it is. A few hours with medical journals will reveal to all but the most stubborn that for healthy women, blood sugar goes DOWN over pregnancy because the baby uses so much of it. If your blood sugar goes UP it is because your pancreas is not functioning properly. Plus, excess sugar is teratogenic, i.e., you don't want to mess with it.

I'm a type 1 diabetic myself, so I find it extra irritating.

Anyway. Good luck! Rooting for you, so happy to see it's gone so well this time.

Posted by: Andrea at Jul 18, 2008 12:36:18 PM

You rock!

I am really, really sick of the birth police wandering around telling me that I failed by having a c-section. Funny, my son is healthy and so am I. Baby #2, due in November, will be delivered by c-section.

No one in my doctor's practice ever wants to see me go into labor, so I have never even experienced a contraction. Oddly, it doesn't bother my son and I doubt it will bother my daughter either :).

Posted by: Marcie at Jul 18, 2008 12:37:19 PM

De-lurking to cheer and say, "Preach ON sister!" I can't imagine the hairy balls of anyone that could be so condenscending, especially given your history and ability to see so much of the big picture when making your OWN medical decisions.

You rock!

Emme Bea

Posted by: Emme Bea at Jul 18, 2008 12:38:37 PM