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01/31/2009
Oh, come on, you had to know this post was coming eventually.
Okay, octuplets?
Seriously?
I wasn't going to write about this. Every time I get all twitchy here about HOMs after ART, I inevitably get my judgmental ass handed to me on a silver platter. No, wait: a plastic fast food tray, because the ass-handing's generally done with a terrifying Kroc-like quickness. It usually begins, "I would have thought that you, of all people..." and, well, how can all that go anywhere good?
So in the early days after the octuplets' birth, when little was known about the circumstances of their conception, I kept my Good Christ, is that woman insane?s to a minimum. I have learned that when I can drop my own defensiveness long enough to find it, there is usually a kernel of value in criticism. Therefore instead of kneejerkfully condemning another woman's reproductive choices, I-of-all-people tried to think of her as someone not so different from people I know and love: infertile, frustrated, perhaps unable to afford IVF. Someone willing to take on the risk of conceive multiples, but unwilling to terminate despite the risk of prematurity, disability, and death. Someone whose situation could well have been my own, though with different convictions and priorities once pregnant. I tried to imagine myself in her place, as unlikely a destination as it seemed. Let a hundred flowers bloom, I counseled myself; let umpteen embryos contend.
And it went very well, I think. I was feeling downright smug with how warm and unjudgey I was for a minute there.
I initially assumed, as did everyone quoted everywhere, from the highly concerned Zev Rosenwaks on down, that this was another instance of an IUI gone awry, where too many follicles developed and someone, ah, 'ow you say, shot first and asked questions later. Regrettable, but by no means unprecedented.
A few days later, the story unfolded further and we learned that the mother is in her early thirties and already a mother of six. Okay, I thought, hanging on to my hundred happy flowers, but even with six already, why shouldn't she try for another? I don't think fertility doctors should refuse treatment to anyone based simply on the number of children she already has.
And certainly her marital status — un- — and her living situation — at her parents' — are similarly immaterial, right? The fact that she's unemployed? Well, it makes me wonder how she afforded treatment and how she proposed to support the children, but I don't tend to get too lathered about such matters. Days passed and more information became available, but I surprised myself by remaining largely unruffled. I wasn't even all that exercised when the octuplets' grandmother was quoted as saying her daughter had had embryos implanted. I figured she must not know what the hell she was talking about. Please: how firm is your mother's grasp of the details of ART?
But then another few days passed and we learned that as improbable as it had seemed, this high-order gestation was the result of IVF. An FET, to be specific. Maybe that's why Zev looks so rueful and wrinkly and...well, brown. He is wrinkly and brown with chagrin, because damn. According to the babies' grandmother, who sounds, incidentally, like a magnificent piece of work, all 14 children were. Which...I mean, what?
And that's where my hundred fucking flowers get stuffed down the garbage disposal. I tried. I did. In the beginning, it was easy not to judge. The coverage all began quite responsibly, even if courtesy phrases like "It's unknown whether she used fertility drugs" strain even the most elastic bounds of belief. During the first few days after the birth, as I clicked from report to report, I was nodding my head in appreciation when a reporter pointed out that insurance coverage for IVF would reduce the number of high-order multiples conceived through poorly-managed IUIs. When an article resolutely refused to romanticize what is actually a fairly horrifying scenario. When one well respected doctor after another soothingly assured the alarmed fertile public that infertiles don't pull this shit on purpose.
But now I'm reading a paragraph like this:
...which leaves me, by no means an expert but certainly an educated layperson, completely flummoxed. So much for elucidating the process. And a statement like this:
...which sets my teeth a-grinding. (Proof that my miraculous transformation into a kinder, gentler Julie was, alas, temporary: this made me wish all eight had been boys.) And a passage like this:
Nadya Suleman, 33, plans a career as a television childcare expert after it emerged last week that she already had six children before giving birth on Monday. She now has 14 below the age of eight.
Although still confined to an LA hospital bed, she intends to talk to two influential television hosts this week — media mogul Oprah Winfrey, and Diane Sawyer, who presents Good Morning America.
Her family has told agents she needs cash from deals such as nappy sponsorship — she will get through 250 a week in the next few months — and the agents will gauge public reaction to her story.
...which leaves me gasping, for about a thousand obvious reasons, assuming any of it is true.
Assuming any of it is true. There's an awful lot here that doesn't sound right, and I don't know about you, but the grandmother doesn't exactly strike me as the soul of veracity and discretion. And with that statement, well, I'm off! As anyone might have predicted, here I am a-judging. But here's the novel part: I'm not actually judging the mother. Swear! No, my deliberate compassion for her is largely still intact, if only because I truly believe she's probably somehow disturbed. I mean, unemployed, single, living at home, and infertile are some pretty high barriers to extending one's family, so how determined must she be, and why?
Further, although I can't say I know people exactly like her, I can identify with each individual variable in her story, even associate it with a real live person. We all know someone who's trying to conceive as a single mother by choice, or who's pursued ART even after several other children, or who can't easily afford treatment but manages it somehow, or who transfers too many embryos — i.e., more than we think we would — in a last-ditch effort and, whoa, hey, lookit: four heartbeats. It inclines me to rather more sympathy than I might have mustered in the past.
But, me being me, I have to judge someone. So I'll settle for the doctor responsible. The doctor who transferred at least four embryos into a young woman with five successful previous pregnancies. (I suppose it is possible that only two were transferred, "but they multiplied"...three...times...each.) Who either didn't conduct a useful psychological assessment before this cycle, or who did so and missed something major. (Apparent lack of a functional support system counts, in my opinion, as something fairly major. Bigmouth wackaloon of a mother, ditto.) The doctor who's singlehandedly undone years of patient explanation — It's fine, Mom; you don't get sextuplets with IVF — and promoted the popular perception of infertility treatment as the last refuge of the selfish, entitled, and irresponsible.
Thanks for the help, Doctor Anonymous!
And with that single sentence, I'm starting to think maybe I have evolved somewhat after all. I thanked him quite politely, and didn't use the words reckless, charlatan, or revocation of license, not even once.
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I, like you, tried to give everything the benefit of the doubt. The more I read, the more I fell off the wagon. The irresponsibility shown all over this case is positively mind boggling.
You know, you, of all people...have captured the essence of this story quite magically. Judge away...they've all earned it.
Thank God you have written! I have been waiting for days to hear what you think of this whole situation. The moment I heard the story, I thought of you.
Sigh. People.
I am a multiple myself (identical twin), have done a lot of research in that area for personal knowledge, and therefore am REALLY confused about how they could have "multiplied." In all my reading about identical twins, I have NEVER heard about "hyperstimulation" due to fertility drugs causing embryos to "multiply," which I take it to mean that they split. If that were the case, more women who undergo fertility treatments would be producing more identical twins, right? But no, fraternal twin rates are increasing and identical twin rates are holding steady at about about 4 per 1000 births. I. Don't. Understand. Maybe a reproductive endocrinologist can let us know?
I definitely agree with you that the psych evaluation prior was either non-existent or "missed something major." There is something about being a single mom, without a job, living at home with parents, trying to go to school, undergoing FET multiple times that strikes me oddly. I have nothing against the use of fertility treatments, but we can all agree that responsible fertility treatments is the way to go. I hope this isn't a major step backward for the way that "outsiders" view multiples and fertility treatments.
Amen, Julie! Well said. As far as I am concerned, there are likely issues with the mother and her family, but the biggest issue is this "medical professional." And, well, since it's not 4 boys and 4 girls...definitely more than 2 embryos transferred any way you slice it (unless we assume that one of the embryos split out to more than quads? which...um...)
"OMFG," as they say. "How can we drum Suleman's doctor out of the profession?" He or she shouldn't be trusted to empty the trash, much less to empty a freezer of embryos into a woman's body.
Big props to the perinatology team that got the disturbed woman's brood of fetuses all the way to 30 weeks. They didn't mess up. But everyone else involved here should be ashamed of themselves.
I heard that Nadia Suleman plans to breastfeed the babies.
The whole situation is ridiculous. For one, I'm one of those single moms by choice you refer to and I have to say nobody I've "met" would ever act so irresponsibly in their efforts to conceive. Maybe if I was independantly wealthy I would have more children. As it stands now I'm debating if I can afford to conceive a second... a far cry from 14. For the record, I have a good job, where I've worked for the past 11 years and own my home... fairly typical of a lot of SMC.
I do wonder if there may be some mental health issues with the mother. Definately with the doctor. It's virtually unheard of for more than two embryos to be transfered here (Canada). I wonder about the ethics of any doctor who would transfer so many embryos... is it possible for them to multiply once they're been transfered? Sounds fishy to me. I'm no scientist but I don't understand the relation between "years of fertility treatments" and the incidence of identical twins.
Amen to that! While the patient might be nuts, the patient's mother is a bigmouth, which is far more annoying, at least in my book. Oh, and I would also like to strangle the reporters who cannot seem to get the terminology right. One does not have embryos "implanted." They are transferred, and if they happen to implant after that, so be it. But so far, doctors are not able to implant embryos, much as we might like them to.
OK, I'm gonna go there. If (and maybe it's a big if) her mother is giving accurate information to the media, this woman is fucking batshit crazy and her children should to be removed from her care. She sounds dangerously mentally unstable. And who is her doctor, Leo Spaceman?
Yes yes yes yes yes.
I sooooo want to find out who her RE is and crucify him. I do blame him and have not been nearly as good at staying unjudgemental as you have.
BTW, I suppose (SUPPOSE) that if they were all blasts that could SOMEWHAT explain it. Blasts are more likely to split. I have a friend (swear to god, not just an urban legend) who's now unlicensed RE transferred 3 blasts in a fresh donor cycle. All took and 2 split. My friend, however, is sane (unlike this mom) and did a selective redution.
I've been following this story over at IVFC and can only shake my head at the increasingly insane turns it's taking. I too, tried to keep an open mind about the mother (and her mother) in the beginning, but the increasingly disturbing information being unearthed are burying it pretty quickly.
I personally have really serious problems with women who are all willing to accept intervention to get pregnant, but then go all "God's Will" and won't reduce a number like 8. I can't even watch a commercial for John & Kate + 8. If I were a RE, I would refuse to implant more than 2 in a woman who refused to reduce, and I would refuse to treat them any longer if more were transferred and then they changed their mind and refused to reduce.
So I came in strongly disliking the woman, but I tried to be kind of ok with her. Then I heard about the other 6. That was it. There is just no reason at all to have that many embryos transferred if you have 6 children already.
All the other ridiculous circumstances are just icing on the cake. I'm with anon - she really must be so unstable that I think it would be very unlikely that she could competently care for these kids.
Ug.
I'm either thinking she found a doctor in Mexico to do what she wanted (cos honestly, how could she have afforded the treatment in the US after filing bankruptcy etc.) or she's lying and there was no transfer, just some meds and reckless sex. I think she's telling lies to her parents about IVF.
It truly is sad and almost to the point of absurd that someone would do something like this. After six, being unmarried and unemployed..it's like she's collecting the kids! How incredably sad. :(
I think that's quite possible, Enid. Like I said, there's a lot here that just doesn't sound right.
Julie, I have been hoping and waiting for you to comment on this. Of course, something is not at all right somewhere, and I pin more than one person. For Mother, personality disorder.
Julie - I totally agree with you. When I saw the story I was in disbelief! Something is just not right.
I'm drunk. A good friend turned 50 tonight. But I've been commenting long enough I think you'll forgive me and maybe hold me hair when I throw up in an hour.
But the first time I thought was "we need some damn regulation on this shit."
And then I thought of the banks, and how well we've done with that. Second I thought Julie will post something good.
In the morning I will read it again, and am sure it will be something good.
Right now, this whole thing seems nuts.
You know, Enid might really be on to something.. Infertile bloggers sometimes offer their unused meds to each other in an effort to help others save money. Mexico, friends, whatever, who's to say she wasn't taking fertility drugs WITHOUT the supervision of a doctor, and then getting pregnant the old fashioned way? She is already demanding money for interviews, I bet she did this on purpose. I would like to read proof that she was being treated by an actual RE.
Initially, I believed it was an IUI that was either canceled, or should have been. But IVF? Seriously?
you know, in that british article it says she met the father of her twins in fertility clinic where they worked....i don't know much about infertility treatments but IF that is true (about her working in a fertility clinic) then WTH happened? makes me wonder.
Initially, I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt that it was an IUI gone awry, that they didn't counsel her about selective reduction until after the embryos took.
Then, the six kids became known and WTF? What doctor didn't cancel the IUI (I don't believe for a second that it was IVF).
Then the parent's bankruptcy, the fact that she worked in a fertility clinic and all the neighbors and grandmother making statements did me in.
Childcare expert? Sorry, some whackadoo who feels the need to have FOURTEEN children in 7 years is closer to a puppy breeding expert than a child expert.
It seems the proliferation of TLC shows about large families and sextuplets has spawned a new type of wackadoo-the one who already has plenty of kids, but will stop at nothing to hit the jackpot and get a TV show, so that they, too, can have the free house, the speaking engagements, the 'love offerings', the free trips to exotic locales and not have to work outside the home.
It disgusts me, honestly. It is my biggest desire right now that there be a media blackout, that all of them REFUSE to give the Sulemans the time of day. If it didn't harm the children, I'd even hope for the state of California to refuse TANF, Food Stamps, Medicaid and whatever other services are given to low income families because she CHOSE to have this many children.
Finally, if this puts a microscope on exactly HOW Kate Gosselin got pregnant, then people will realize that they got their sextuplets on purpose. Their website said something about being hospitalized for overstimulated ovaries and then boom, four weeks later, she had a positive pregnancy test. As Kate would say, HELLO? Overstim=Cancelled cycle=you and your husband purposely went home and did what you were told not to do!
The worst thing of all is that these women and their HOMs are now going to make it extremely difficult for everyone else to go through IVF and IUI. I feel horrible for my infertile friends who will pay the price for greedy women who want the big bucks for having a litter.
Man, I am in my early thirties, with a good job and I live alone supporting myself. And ain't NO WAY I can afford 14 kids, not economically or mentally. Hell, I think three cats are excessive.
I think the mother is incredibly selfish and possibly a bit unbalanced. I hope to high heaven she does not get any of the offers she's hoping for - I wish she wouldn't get any more publicity. She basically had her children in order to make money, and oh, how reprehensible is that? I started judging her the second the news about her previous six kids broke, and after finding out she's breeding for exploitation purposes, I'm feeling pretty contemptuous.
And I confess I have been coming here for days wondering what you had to say about it. *hangs head*
I really tried to give her the benefit of the doubt when this story surfaces. I didn't want to be "that person" who immediately jumps to conclusions and judges. And now, well, I am speechless.
But what pisses me off even MORE is that this woman can manage to carry 8 friggin babies to 30+ weeks and my body can't handle one past 25!!! That alone is enough to make me want to rip her apart.
You've saved me blogging bitterly abuot this very thing.
My net position, by theway, remains a hearty WHAT THE FUCK?
It just doesn't jibe.
Oh, and if one more retarded reporter refers to how many embryos were 'implanted', my head my just explode. Really.
J
At this point, I think we need to give up on the implantation debate, and accept that for most people "implanted" just means "transferred," and that the implication that we find so offensive -- that the embryos "implanted" or managed to burrow in -- is not that important. It offends us because we think it makes IVF seem like more of a sure thing than it is, but perhaps those who use the i-word in its common (and, yes, incorrect) sense also understand that "implanted" does not mean "results in a baby." If not, that's something that could be taught. Whereas the vocabulary issue is a battle we've lost. I'm not happy about it, but maybe we should move on to live horses.
And the bigger issue here is a very live horse, fit to be flogged! Thanks for your fine work there! Did you by any chance wonder whether Suleman's reported comment about being paid for IVF suggested she had been an egg donor? As a mother to a baby from a donned egg (in my case also donated), I thought again about donor profiles, and about all that -- misplaced? -- emphasis on finding a donor who is "proven." Because if a woman proves certain things by producing offspring, sanity is clearly not one.
There will always be some women who go to socially deviant lengths to have a passel. But as you said, you can't do anything about those who don't involve a licensed practitioner (I'm thinking of you, M.D., mother-to-18). It's not Oprah who pushed her. But perhaps we could simply have Suleman's doctor pay child support / war reparations for the litter?
How did she receive infertility treatments anyway with 6 children under the age of 7? I think what the doctor did was borderline malpractice. He/She went against every IVF guideline out there. Besides the social factors..unemployed, lives with parents-whom filed for bankrupcy...
14 children? Really? What the hell is wrong with this woman?
People were never meant to have litters. Period.
I wish her all the luck in the world as far as breastfeeding them, because I can't see, after breastfeeding only one, how that is humanly possible.
And if she isn't crazy as a shit house brick already, she will be soon.
The first thought I had after hearing that this was, in fact, an IVF catastrophe, was:
What in the Sam Hill was her RE thinking?
Holy Malpractice, Batman!! Who thought that transferring that number of embryos was a sound medical decision?
"...promoted the popular perception of infertility treatment as the last refuge of the selfish, entitled, and irresponsible."
Exactly. I couldn't have said it better.
But wait. *I* heard that she was planning to stage a coup of the local youth soccer club.
I also heard that she's taking bid on eBay to name her kids after blogs, and don't think I'm not sending my $23.67.
I kid.
I don't know who to judge. I generally feel most comfortable judging myself negatively for judging others in the first place. But, I'm not always the saint I pretend to be. And I do have to at least wonder at some of the conversations that went on in the office. I also imagine that Doctor Anonymous will become quite un-Anonymous at some point...perhaps. I'll reserve judgment. But I won't be surprised when the book shows up in our store.
Not only did I know this post was coming, but I kept checking in every day to see where it was. Thanks for leaving me hanging. Christ.
Seriously, though, I am just so enraged by this whole thing. I never got my 100 happy flowers. Because fuck that. Not only is she giving the whole ART practice a bad name, she's giving infertiles a bad name. Not only in the ill educated media (IMPLANTED *twitch*), but she'll no doubt change the way ART is performed in some way.
Not to mention this whole story keeps changing and seems full of holes to me. She just shows up at a hospital at 12 weeks pregnant? Out of thin air? She wants to maintain her anonymity, yet, she expects everyone to come running to her with jobs, book deals and tv proposals? Not to mention the free swag?
Not only is she sketchy, but if this whole story is even half truth, she's so mental. Not only do I feel bad for her original six, but she went through and proceeded with her pregnancy (and this is assuming that they only transferred four embryos back, instead of eight), putting herself and her babies in danger. I just think of the problems they'll face and I get irate at her irresponsibility. I get that selective reduction is not a light decision. By any means. I can't say how I would have felt having been thrown in that situation. But I've had many a conversation with my RE and my husband.
Overall, this whole story just makes my brain itch.
This whole situation really bothers me. I'm a psychiatrist, and here where I practice, we have a lot of trouble getting appropriate treatment for people who desperately need it due to budget shortfalls. Therefore I am hyper-aware of the fact that we do not have limitless health care resources. Now, I have no idea whether this woman is privately insured, on medicaid, or what, but if she is unemployed and a mother of gazillion, this likely means she is getting some state funds for her brood (I don't know this, of course, but it's hard to imagine how she wouldn't qualify). The public funds are not limitless - especially in California - where they are looking at a huge deficit. (Again, assuming this is in part, publicly funded) Is it really fair to ask the public to spit up the money for a mother of 6 to have 8 more children with complex fertility treatment? Not to mention the hundreds of thousands to million dollars it will take to keep 8 kids in the NICU for however many weeks they need.
I would never say a woman should be denied fertility treatment because she is poor and infertile. But this case (again, I don't know the specifics of the case, monetary-wise, but the hypothetical is an important question too - even if she is privately insured, the insurance company may increase copays for others to pay for this expense - somebody is paying, here, and health care dollars are not limitless!) does make one think of a line - should a woman with 6 children be eligible for either privately or publicly paid insurance for fertility treatment? It is a crass, horrible, judgmental question in one respect, but the realities are also there - this is a lot of money, someone's paying, and it doesn't seem that this woman is. Which means we all pay, one way or another.
I feel a bit like a jackass making this argument, but at the same time, I'm using hook and crook over here to get my patients proper medications and social supports (which are drying up as we speak) to keep them out of institutions and keep them productive in society. The money does count, and counts dearly.
The whole story seems sort of...unhinged to me. There's so much wrong with it, even to a non-infertile, and I'm not just talking about the logistics of a whack-a-doo doctor transfering an unmitigated wad of embryos to a single mother of six, or the single mother of six who, inexplicably, gave the whole thing the thumbs-up.
I wonder, though, about the difference between this particular breed of nonsense and the nonsense that is the Duggars, that family of something like 24 kids. My overwhelming thought every time I watch or read something about that hot mess is, no matter how happy and well-adjusted that herd seems, I'm just not buyin' it. Somebody's gonna pay the piper in the Duggar family--probably one of the older kids, whose life has centered around "parenting" the younger ones since there were younger ones to parent. Sorry, but even if you have the resources to create and shepherd a flock like that...sometimes just because you can doesn't mean you should.
I was waiting for you to jump in on this. This post is pretty much my thoughts exactly. I even discussed with a few co-workers and said no way was this IVF. RE's don't transfer that many embryos yada, yada. I would really like to hear an explanation from her doctor. As for the woman herself- I don't know what to say except- thanks for adding to the general populations total lack of understanding for infertiles.
Julie, you're a better person than I. I'm angry at the mother - or I was - and immediately judged her. Though I agree, the more I've learned about the story, the more I blame the people around her. I'm relatively new to ART: after 5 miscarriages, I'm beginning IVF this spring, but the specialist clinic we go to tries to discourage multiples by only transferring one or two embryos at a time. I know twinning is more common in ART, but I can't really buy that s/he only transferred a couple of embryos. Had to have been more. Which puts risks his patient's health, not to mention that of her children. S/he is the one I'm most angry with in this situation. Clearly the mother is a woman who could use serious psychotherapy and drugs.
To the reader who asked if this woman's doctor was Dr. Leo Spacemen: yes. Clearly. Either him or Dr. Nick!
There is definitely some malpractice going on. I judge other RE's actions by my wonderful RE, who really is excellent at walking the line between trying to get women pregnant and avoiding multiples, including twins. When my husband and I went through all our pre IVF palooza, we went through several seminars and conferences. We were told, in no uncertain terms, that because of our age (under 35) our diagnosis (male factor) and the quality of our embryos (good to excellent) our doctor WOULD NOT transfer more than two embryos at a time...ever. That if we wanted to transfer more than two we would have to go to another practice AND sign a waiver stating that we had been told not to do it. When we decided to try for a third, even though I was 37 and our embryos not as stellar, my doctor still suggested no more than two because we had twins. He wanted to transfer only one, but it was our last shot with our insurance. I still have 4 embryos left, and if I went in and said "WTF...throw 'em all in doc, I want those quads" he would say "NO".
I'm not judging the mom at all, but any RE worth his diploma doesn't transfer 8 embryos into a woman under 35 who has undergone successful ART unless the embryos are total ASS. As for them splitting...what a joke. There is one woman who has two sets of identical twins in a set of quads, and the odds are astronomical. If there had been a transfer of only 2 or 3 embryos and she ended up with 8 it would have been all over the place...even if the doc was just trying to save his rep among his fellow ART community.
I'm saving all of my compassion in this case for those children, both those who will never get an ounce of attention again because of their 8 needy siblings, and the siblings themselves. They didn't ask for this.
On one hand, I wish all of the attention would be withdrawn from the mother and she would be left to manage the results of her choices - alone. On the other hand, I hope she gets every sponsorship she's asking for and then some so that the innocents get a shot at going to college and making a better life for themselves.
Once I heard she had six at home already, I was done not judging. She sounds like she has serious mental health issues.
I read an article today that quoted a former caregiver for her 3 year old autistic son as saying the woman told her that she could afford to do IVF because she was paid for it.
Even assuming that some--even many--of the quotes are false, something seems really, really wrong with this picture. My guess is going to be that there is an unethical doctor in the mix who has been doing something very naughty.
This is so frustrating on so many levels. I HATE that people at work are talking about this and IVF like they know what they are talking about. And now she has 14 kids and draining California's already depleted funds. Thanks.
...and one of the older children is autistic. And now has 13 siblings. Spectacular.
Ah Julie - I've been waiting for this post. This situation is UNBELIEVABLE! And yes, it sets us back years in explaining IVF to friends and family. I've been absolutely livid when i allow myself to think/read about it. completely judgy, not that i'm proud of it. in fact, i've noticed that my brow is wrinkled and i'm beginning to look a bit brown - oh god, i'm starting to resemble zev rosenwaks!
mo
www.lifeandloveinthepetridish.blogspot.com
When I heard about the birth, the surprise 8th baby, I actually felt a twinge of joy in my heart. I mean, eight beautiful and relatively healthy new babies...how wonderful for that couple.
And now?
As Akeeyu so eloquently put it on my blog, "we who have done/are doing/need to do IVF are still going to get tarred with this stupid cow's brush."
Oh wait! An autisitic child? And not to mention whatever the hell will be wrong with the rest of the litter once they leave the NICU? Amazing. And to think... I have ONE 3 year old boy who's perfectly healthy and it's enough to make me pull out my hair. But 14???!!! Everyone would get to come see me in the padded room with the special made jacket that makes me hug myself. At first, I was intrigued by the medical end of it. 8 living babies. A whole slew of doctors that kept 8 babies alive. That is a true testament to how great our doctors/nurses are and how far medicine has come. However, now the financial ramifications of supporting these 8 (14) kids. My husband and I both work full time, can't afford to pay our bills and get groceries most of the time, but still don't qualify for any sort of assistance. *We* make too much money. So, that proves my point. If I were to sit at home all day and pop out a million kids, we'd be rolling in the dough. DHS would be banging on my door offering money. AND as a single mother, her schooling should be paid for too, so why work? Grrrrr!!!
I have also been waiting patiently for this post. Thank you for giving a very articulate voice to the anger and disbelief that I have been feeling since I first learned about the six siblings. I stopped following the story after that to preserve my own sanity, but now reading here of the potential media extravaganza, I have no words. I don't know all the facts, but the two I do know are enough - (1) she had some sort of fertility treatment and (2) she already had six young children. I'm judging all of them - doctor (if he/she exists), mother, and family. I'll throw the media in there if they make this woman a hero/martyr/superwoman.
Again, Julie, thank you.
MB
My head is spinning on my neck reading the stories about this person and her family. I'm grateful to you for writing this post, because it felt SO GOOD to finally read something and nod along and say "Right, RIGHT!!!" rather than "What the????!" My blood is boiling over this whole situation; it seems incredibly wrong in about 1,000 different ways!
I have been waiting for this post as well!! Way to go, Julie!
I have triplets (identical boys) and I wish this woman and Kate and all the other ones would indeed fall out of fashion. Our family has no privacy in public even though we avoid attention as much as possible. I would love for multiples to go back to being unusual, rather than mini-celebrities.
Although my triplets were spontaneous, I can promise you eggs split more often than you'd think. A good portion of the triplet community is made up of women who transferred 2 embryos. We know of two sets of identical triplets that started out as one transferred embryo.
It's impossible to excuse this woman or her doctor, but I doubt we're looking at 8 embryos. (I'm with Enid in thinking she got her hands on some injectibles and took matters into her own hands.)
So typical and liberal. See, it bothers you immensely if a government or individual restricts reproduction where YOU disagree but here where you think something should have been done you think the doc should have performed some sort of psychological testing. It's all or none my dear. You can't pick and choose who should be entitled to treatment (or to reproduce).
I don’t disagree with you that this women is nuts and that should shouldn’t subject these poor kids to this life (never mind the state, our tax money, welfare etc) but we don’t get to choose the same way we can’t stop poor families already on welfare from having more kids we can’t prevent a loony from trying to have numbers 6-14 if she so desires. It’s part of the democracy.
But then again you're all for the distabution of wealth so why not send her a check?
I'm sorry to introduce my ignorance here, but I'm wondering if someone can give a very brief explanation of why she couldn't have conceived octupluts via IVF? (This is a genuine question - I don't know how the process works in enough biological detail.) Is it that the transferred embryos can't split because they're past that stage of development?
I will also add my horror and disgust at the situation (women are NOT cats!) and fear for the future of those babies, especially considering the astoundingly high odds that many of them might develop special needs. I'm always sad by how much the media in particular glorifies these medical miracle births. I know miracles do happen and very tiny babies can survive and do well, but many of them have catastrophic problems.
Why aren't there laws governing fertility treatments?
Distribution, sorry.
Because everyone has the right to have as many children as they want.