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08/19/2009
Help me civilize my son and I'll let you ride in the front
Oh, you lovely Internets, you always pull me through. You always give me just what I need: sympathy, ideas, company, different points of view, the occasional decisive ass-kicking I'm sometimes just begging for. Thank you so much for your warm words on my last post. Blogging has given me a lot of pretty amazing gifts — why, I defy anyone to improve upon the smooth, smooth ride and practical luxury of the brand new seven-passenger minivan given to me by the kind people at Honda USA. Do I make myself clear, Toyota? — but above all it's shown me that however hard I find the going, I never need be alone. Thanks for coming through, friends inside the computer.
I treasure the support, and I especially love hearing your stories, even the sad ones. See, I came kind of late to empathy. (Some might say I've only partly arrived. To them I say, fuck off. Who cares what you think?) Your stories, shared on blogs and in comments, have been instrumental in helping me develop some. It still doesn't always come easily, but with every story I read it's impressed upon me again that whatever the work, it's worth it — the payoff is so rich, that knowledge that we're all in this together.
And speaking of empathy! Because we were! And the helping me! Because you do! I need some advice, if you have any.
Charlie's been going through a rough patch lately. If we lived in an earlier time and place, we might be inclined to say he'd been possessed by the Devil. And then, post-diagnosis, you'd call me Goody Julie, and I'd call you Goody Internet, and we'd all get together and maybe raise us up a barn or concoct a batch of small beer or, I don't know, band together and disapprove strenuously of something before pressing my sweet small son between two large, flat stones to squeeze the very evil clean out of him. And then maybe we'd search a neighbor for vestigial nipples, just for fun.
But since I live in 21st century America, I'll say instead that he's been embroiled in a flirtation with being wicked. He's experimenting with badness as he understands it: speaking rudely to adults, refusing to do as he's told, peeing on toys — which, I mean, hahahaha — and just generally making himself unpleasant company. All that I can live with; I think it's normal and age-appropriate and even kind of funny a lot of the time. (Charlie shouts, "I won't do what you say, and you can't make me." And then I go all Blofeld and say, in a detached, amused voice, "Oh, I think you'll find I can, Mr. Bond." And then I stroke an exotic pet, if one happens to be to hand.)
Those impulses are disagreeable but manageable. What worries me more about his recent behavior is his inability to control his anger, his tendency to lash out physically when something pisses him off. In the last week he's had two incidents at preschool involving striking a teacher.
Oh, my God, y'all, my kid hit a teacher!
I can't even describe the way my stomach lurched when I heard about it, or how embarrassed I am even to type those words. And how flummoxed I am when I think about what to do. (And how ambivalent I am about posting this. Attention, employers of 2029: I am speaking to you from the paaaaaaast. Sure, he behaved like a creeeeeeep. But hiiiiire my sonnnnnn regardlessssssss.)
What we've told Charlie, time and again, is that it's not okay to use your body to show you're angry. I hoped this formula would make it clear that while we're perfectly willing to talk about it when he's mad — and he is terrifyingly good at using his words, and several other people's worth, too — hurting other people or damaging property won't be tolerated.
And it's not, within the framework of discipline that we've established. But that framework seems to be inadequate right at the moment; something is going on with him that keeps him from considering, in the moment, the consequences of making his anger physically felt, and I don't know how to respond.
We've been feeling our way, trying to come up with a strategy, some approach that involves both punishment — consequences, schmonsequences: my kid hit a teacher — and discipline. Something that will make enough of an impression that even in the heat of the moment, it'll keep him from doing it again. Something, and I say this with all love, that hits him where it hurts.
I have hopes for the latest idea, one shared with me by Julia, which is to delete his favorite program from the TiVo. I talked with him about this plan on Sunday, and reminded him of it on Monday morning. When Monday afternoon rolled around and it happened he'd done it again, I told him it was coming; walked him into the den; and ignored his pleas for mercy as I touched the cursèd clear button. Taste my steel, Super Why. I never liked you one bit.
(I make it sound like I enjoyed ripping out the heart of my vulnerable child and stamping it under my jackboot. Not exactly so. It's kind of like how I'd feel if lightning struck my house, ripped through the roof, and demolished my stackable front-loading washer and dryer in a highly localized column of destruction. I'd be terribly distressed overall, and daunted by the inconvenience, but I'd find some small solace in choosing a new machine to replace the lemon of a washer that even after repairs makes my clothes smell like vomit. Electrolux, are you listening?)
Anyway, that made an immediate impression, down to his reminding me for the next few hours that he was so angry that he didn't love me anymore. "Oh. Well, I still love you," I assured him pleasantly. And then shortly before dinner, a meal planned for his enjoyment, he volunteered that he was still angry, but he'd decided he did still love me. This Stockholm Syndrome thing kicks ass.
And so, more reminders. We sent him off to preschool this morning with a reminder — behave, or Word Girl's worm food — and some small hope that this, at last, had made some impression. I sure hope it does, because I'm running out of ideas.
Here is where your help comes in, if you wouldn't mind sharing your experience. How do you impress upon a four-year-old — who, as the book warns me, "not only kicks and spits (if aroused) but may even go so far as to run away from home if things don't please him," so if you happen to be at the bus station please keep an eye out for my disgruntled Super Why-less son — that it's really, really not okay to use his body to show he's angry? How do you make that clear? How do you handle it when you need to make a punitive point?
And here is where we come around to empathy. I'm concerned that Charlie's not especially concerned with it, if you see what I mean. Charlie's teacher — D., who remains thus far unsnared — has let Charlie know that even though she's a grown-up, her body can still be hurt. And we've let him know, time and again, that to hurt someone, either her body or her feelings, is a serious matter, and that other people's feelings are important. I try to demonstrate this, to lavish the benefits of it on him, every time I apologize for a mistake, or thank him for doing something that makes someone feel good, or exclaim sympathetically over his stubbed bare toe instead of rolling my eyes and muttering, "You know those shoes I kept telling you to put on...?" (Employers of 2029! Make him wear steel-toed worrrrrk booooooooots!)
But I've yet to see any real understanding of this on his part. I don't know that all the "how would you feel if...?"s and "do you remember when you were upset that...?"s and "did it feel good when your teacher kicked you in the face?"s are getting through, and I don't know how to make them.
So, Internets, I ask you, with humility and gratitude: how have you approached similar problems? How do you crush your child's fragile spirit through punitive consequences, and how do you make him understand that other people's fragile spirits must not be likewise crushed?
Wait, that didn't come out right. Be patient; I am still learning. Let me try again: What have you come up with as a really meaningful, effective consequence for physically lashing out? And how do you teach your child to care enough for others that they avoid doing so in the first place?
Pull me through this one, friends, and I'll let you ride in the Lexus I'm sure I'll be getting next week. (Toyota, this isn't a bluff.)
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It's been a long time since my kids were 4 (they'll be 15 next month), but what I do remember was the school telling me that when my daughter bit people (which she did with embarassing frequency), they would immediately remove her from whatever she was doing and she either sat in the corner or (on one occasion) she was sent to the principal's office to talk to him about what she was doing. I think you're doing all the right things at home, but I'm wondering what the school does when Charlie hits? What are the repercussions there?
I have always found that the immediacy of the "punishment" after the "crime" really mattered. Little kids have a short attention span and punishing him at home for something he did at school in the spur of the moment may not really help him make the connection.
Anyway, just my two cents. I found 4 to be the hardest age... good luck.
Patti, I think that's absolutely a factor, the time elapsed between offense and parental reaction. I think his teachers handle it as well as they can, removing him from whatever fun activity is going on, but I can't shake the belief that our reaction, because we're his parents, is going to carry more weight.
...But that may just be wishful thinking.
The fact that you survived age 4 and have managed to get to 15 is inspiring, so thank you. Sometimes I doubt we'll make it that far.
Man, do I feel your pain. Unfortunately, I don't have the answers since I'm in the midst of the same, exact stage, again, with my 4 1/2 year old boy. Some days, I'm just grateful that his physical outbursts have never been directed at his younger sister and brother (17 month old twins; why, yes, they were naturally conceived. Through IVF). Consistent consequences worked the first time around. Apparently, though, he's a slow learner... Or he thinks that maybe we have become feeble minded and changed the rules.
I find great comfort in the following mantra: "his frontal lobe is not fully developed yet". It's true. That whole impulse control issue is directly linked to frontal lobe development; it doesn't excuse the behavior, but helps with my patience level.
The other thing we did, and do with other types of behavior issues, is rewards (kinda like the whole potty training sticker chart). So, a sticker each day you don't hit/try to hit, five stickers gets you a surprise. This was done in conjunction with an immediate negative consequence if he did hit.
Make sure you discuss any options for immediate consequences with his teacher to make sure you're all on the same page.
My less proud parenting moments are when I ask if he would like me to do the same thing he just did to him; one of these days, he'll say yes. And I will be at a loss. But, right now, I try to get to the "don't do something to someone else that you wouldn't want done to you" without the threat. Empathy is so hard for a kid who is still at the "all about me" developmental stage.
I have to be honest - four has not been my favorite age. Everything he does is age appropriate, and he's naturally testing the limits of how far he can go (here's a hint kid: not very far), but it is over and over and over again.
Oh, Julie. I feel for you. We went through the same thing with both our kids - well, one came through it and is now 5, and the other is 3 1/2 and just had two good months after 5 months of hitting/kicking/spitting on teachers and sometimes other students. We tried every form of punishment we could think of - spankings, timeouts until bedtime, taking away toys, taking away special events, reading "Hands are Not for Hitting" every. damn. night. Acheivement charts. Stickers if they didn't hit anyone.
Honestly, none of it really worked. They both just... outgrew it. Well, we our son we figured out lactose intolerance was contributing to his unwellness, thus making him aggressive. With our daughter, we determined that her ability to express herself hadn't caught up with the range of emotions she could now feel - she didn't know how to ask other kids if she could play with them so she just hit them to get their attention. She didn't like naptime when she wasn't at home with her music and her animals and her bed, so she just pitched a giant fit and kicked the teacher instead of telling them she wanted to be at home to rest. I think 1) Charlie will outgrow it eventually and 2) he just can't figure out how to express something that he's feeling, so is resorting to base behavior. There's a chance he might have a food sensitivity that's flaring up, too - orange juice and yellow food dye make my kids crazy.
Or perhaps he's marking his territory and is anxious that Ben is trying to take his toys? You could always cut back on the nature shows in that case. :D
I don't have an answer for you, and i support the path you're on. But I do want to mention something i think we all need to remember. Children are not mentally - and I mean physically and neurologically - able to be altruistic before (approximately) the age of 16. (16!!). We obviously need to sow the seeds of altruism - simplistically put, doing what's right because it's right, kindness for kindness sake. But with appropriate expectations in behavior.
My little one is almost two and is already showing the signs of terrible-twoness so I'm trying to make my own game plan. I think you are on the right track and i can't wait to see what everyone else has to offer. But I keep reminding myself that doing good needs to feel good to a child, because they may not do so otherwise. Combine that with the need for children to learn impulse control by throwing and recovering from tantrums etc, and it means we all need to have some patience at this trying time in our children's lives.
The only real advice i have to offer is that when i praise - and i try to do that more than punish - I praise for very specific things so as to help my little one understand: "thank you for doing what mommy said," "thank you for putting that toy away," "thank you for calming down when mommy asked." I also do insist that she calm down before we proceed with any action. It may take her some time, but she understands that everything stops until she can be calm and quiet enough to hear mommy.
I look forward to hearing how everyone faces the exorcism-worthy stuff though.
I was a teacher and one little girl kept biting me. I still loved her. You know, if that makes you feel any better. I feel less strongly about the little boy who kept giving me the finger and then put his hands in his diaper and smeared poop on my knees.
It sounds like he needs some physical way to get his anger out at the time. I've heard of another parent teaching her child to stomp instead of hitting. That way he'd be taking his agression out on the floor, but still getting it out.
A decade(!) ago, I was babysitting my then 5 year old niece. The little monster was biting and kicking and doing everything in her power to push my buttons, and eventually I sent her to her room.
My sister (another aunt) arrived, and decided that, surely, a 5 year old was capable of reason.
After five or ten minutes upstairs with the little one, my sister emerged and declared victory! The little monster had seen the light and realized the error of her ways! She was sorry!! What an angel!
As she laced up her shoes at the bottom of the staircase, that little angel launched every shoe, brush, and fling-able item from the upstairs of that house down the staircase. Directly at my sister's head.
Now, she's a fully-functioning teenager. Well, she functions as well as any other 15 year old girl. And she doesn't hit anymore.
This too shall pass.
I remember the years between 3 and 4 as particularly brutal with Ben (Alex is still 2 so my theory that it is an age thing will be unproven for a year or so). I also remember those being the years that my hand made a lot of contact with his delicate butt cheeks.
My advice here is to hit him where it hurts. I don't mean to knee him in the nads, because, dude, that's SO not cool, but you know, find his CURRENCY or whatever new-agey bullshit term I can come up with.
If it's cutting off sleepovers or seeing friends or dessert or being banished to his bedroom or removal of favorite toys or my personal favorite, MAKING HIM TELL PEOPLE WHAT HE DID WRONG. Figure out what will bother him the most and go with that.
And when all else fails, there's a swat to the butt. Or three. And lots of vodka.
For you, I mean. Not him.
(ducks as the NY TIMES people start lobbing copies of the AA handbook at me)
At 2.5, our physical lashing-out comes in the form of tantrums aimed at the injustice of the world, not so much at specific people, so it's not exactly the same, but ... one thing that has made a big difference for us is exercise. Maybe that's trite, but I have found deliberate, intense, lengthy exercise in the blazing sun (with appropriate sun safety and hydration, of course) has really diminished her aggression. We walk about 2 miles together in the evening at a moderate pace with running intervals between mailboxes and she's WIPED OUT when we get back. I can always tell the next day if we've missed our forced march because she's far more likely to melt down.
So maybe Charlie would benefit from some kind of 'training schedule' (I wish I was kidding but I am totally not) as a preventative measure? Could he walk a few miles with you and push/pull a wagon or stroller? Could he do intervals of walking & jogging with Paul? Would he fall for "Run around the house and I'll time you!" for an hour?
Like "2 kids under 5," 4 is not my favorite age. It's not that he doesn't have empathy, it's that he's 4, and therefore essentially without empathy because... he's 4.
That said, even an older and extremely empathetic kid can continue to have impulse control issues wherein they use their bodies to express anger (as you so eloquently put it) and are very, very sorry afterward, and yet keep doing it.
You're doing the right stuff. There's consequences for his actions. I assume both you and the teacher are discussing with him (and perhaps even doing role-playing) about other ways to handle those negative feelings. He will figure it out eventually.
Sadly, I say this as a parent to a much older kid who is still struggling with this issue. What I'm finding is that age will extinguish this behavior for most kids, and peer shaming is hugely influential in the cases where it doesn't. But if you end up still dealing with this where I am, it's because of other, underlying issues (which we have), and there's no reason to assume that that's what you'll be looking at with Charlie. Right now you just diagnose him with an acute case of the "f*cking 4s" and hope/assume it will improve. ;)
My husband claims that guys sometimes need to break some shit to let all their testosterone-fueled aggression out. Maybe that has some validity, and you could institute nightly pillow fights or some heavy bag punching.
I'm reading and memorizing these comments, because there comes a time when time-outs and consequences DON'T do the trick. And the "experts" don't seem to have other suggestions.
Three was the wicked age for my first. Four was definitely the wicked age for my second. Who knows what will happen with my now sweet, innocent 17 month old.
"I can't shake the belief that our reaction, because we're his parents, is going to carry more weight"
Here's a thought: I used to spend huge amounts of time on school playgrounds, where there were parents, caregivers and official afterschool supervisors looking out for the kids. From my observations, when there were minor problems, parents carried the least weight in that situation, and the supervisors carried the most weight.
It seems like you're on the right track, he obviously hates having his shows deleted. It might make him stop and think if you continue to do that. I think that Charlie is going through a stage and that he'll outgrow it... which can't be much solace to you now.
Hi Julie - I read religiously but don't comment often... My kids are 16 and 12 now - 3 was the evil age in our house. My older one SPIT in my FACE when I put her in time out once. Where would that idea even come from? She is perfectly charming now - they do out grow this stage. I promise.
I second the idea that consequences hours later have little to no effect. Even from parents. He won't stop to consider his shows being erased tonight with hitting that annoying teacher now. It is not a "logical" consequence (eating without him when he didn't wash hands - immediate, logical and hopefully effective).
Something to consider - is this pre-school a good match for him? It seems that some type of personality conflict (?), problem with the discipline style, or the ridigidity or lack there of, or curriculum or something is distressing and stressing him. I am a teacher and find that a one size fits all model of education does not work. In fact, my kids ended up in different schools because what worked for one made the other miserable (which in turn made me miserable).
Good luck - 4 doesn't last forever.
I agree with everyone else, I just wanted to make a comment.
Peeing on toys? Reminds me of a book I saw in a picture taken of my older son at his first doctor appointment called "Don't Spit on Shoes". Was this really such a problem that a kid's book had to be written?
My daughter (also age 4) hit her teachers a couple of times this past school year. I was horrified and felt helpless. The school removed her from the room, sent her to the director's office and she was not allowed to go out for recess that day but rather sat miserably in the company of a less familiar adult who barely glanced at her. We spoke to her about the hitting, we've always emphasized the same things you describe -- in the end, I don't think we had anything to do with her moving out of the phase, though. She just stopped when the consequences the school imposed had their effect and it all sank in. My advice: consistently deliver your message, let the school (and the teachers who have so much experience managing and changing behavior) do their work and ultimately, just wait it out.
Also, I'm sure google has lots of information about this but every front loading washer I've had has had smell issues -- it's the gasket at the front that isn't clean -- water accumulates and bacteria build up and blech. I hate them and have vowed to only use the top loadying type for the rest of my days.
Delurking here and I'm sorry if anything I say is a repeat. 4 is such a hard age. They aren't a baby and they aren't a big kid. I found my son acted out because it was something he could control. I think you are doing an awesome job with reacting to his behavior. You told him what the punishment would be and followed through, which many parents don't. Maybe try to work in things that he can control for the day. IE- What you have for dinner, what's on the tv, what the fun activity for the day is, etc. Just make sure that the options you give him are answers you can live with.
I don't know the answer to this (ours is a 15-mo-old), but when we've grappled with other baby problems, I've searched the Berkley Parents Network Web site for ideas, suggestions, reassurance, etc. Might be worth checking out parts of http://parents.berkeley.edu/advice/schoolaged/index.html.
My girl has bitten the teacher - or tried to, anyway, and she has bitten another infant to the point of drawing blood. It is horrifying. She never does this at home, so I am at a loss about how to correct behavior that doesn't happen in front of me.
I just read a few weeks ago on another blogger's site that she has some issues with her daughter acting out at school and regarding discipline. Nothing seemed to phase her and the blogger didn't want to resort to spanking. So, instead she puts her daughter in a cold shower. Clothes and all. It seems to snap her back to reality (especially during a tantrum, sassing, etc.), it doesn't hurt her, and it is an uncomfortable consequence. I don't know how effective this would be if it were administered hours after a behavior problem, but I really like this idea. I'm a fan of discipline but not of spanking.
Two thoughts:
1. Finding and practicing alternate strategies for when he feels the need to hit or physically harm someone else. We successfully (after lots of practice) turned an impulse to hit into high fives. You can perhaps get the teachers involved in this too so as to present a united front.
2. Empathy strategy: use characters in books and movies. You can talk about how a character may be feeling and what happens to those feelings when X occurs--this can be around both good and bad feelings, obviously. The goal, I reckon, is to develop an emotional vocabulary that's in-line with the world around you.
Good luck! And remember: four-year-olds are a pain in the ass. It won't always be so (right?).
Also, while I am as far from new-agey as it comes, I do believe that punishment is a pretty ineffective behavior modifier. Research seems to back this up.
I'm almost afraid to recommend another book for you after the last one. I always found the 1000+ Berstein bears series useful to help teach the empathy and "feelings" lessons.
My youngest was a terror at that age and through most of elementary school. The good news is that I can't remember exactly what he did (except the running away from school twice) or the specifics of how we handled it (probably some removal of anything with a screen - have to be careful so it doesn't punish you). Contrary to the signs of being a future inmate at juvie hall, he's now the most easygoing 16 year old I've seen.
I think that you have to find the right punishment/reward combination for each child. You'll find it. I also think that when kids are most unlovable is when they need the most love. Kind of like dogs who tear your nice pillows apart after you don't walk them one day.
I'm not sure 4 year olds, developmentally, really GET empathy yet.
I guess I'd be more inclined to try to figure out why it's happening -- what's going on that he's having such an oversized reaction? Is it really experimenting with badness, a kind of kid empiricism? Is he feeling crappy for some reason? Is something happening that's overwhelming him and this is how he's reacting?
I mean, sure, maybe he's just being a bit of a turd right now, but I'd save that for the nothing-else-makes-sense explanation.
Why, I would relactate and embark upon a course of remedial breastfeeding! You might also want to wear him in a bed sheet-sized sling most of the waking day. And ask him about his feelings and deeper motivations and ask him to reassess his commitment to consensual living.
Bwahahahahaha!
The book "The Secret of Parenting" by Anthony Wolfe is stone-cold psychological warfare. It's not cruel, but phew, it's efficient. It's a quick read.
But I am not above taking the batteries out of the remote or sending toys to time out.
I don't know if you read askmoxie.org, but I remember reading on her site (and finding it incredibly comforting) that kids go through harmonious and disharmonious phases, and while that might sound a bit silly, I really found it to be true with my now 5.5 year old. While she wasn't hitting, she definitely was generally unpleasant for a while and it seems like she just sort of grew out of it. At any rate, I'd recommend checking out Ask Moxie; you might find some helpful advice there.
You sound like you are on top of things and I'm assuming you have already tried what I will attempt to describe. My son is only 3.75 so none of this may work in year 4-5.
My son, much to my chagrin, responds to frustration/undisclosed pain (usually food related)/fatigue with aggressive acts - biting, hitting, scratching, etc. When not stressed by these things, my son is generally easy-going. I think I share with him a tendency toward sensory sensitivity which I believe plays a role here because I am a developmental neuroscience nerd not from any formal diagnosis.
I come at his aggressive acts as uncontollable for the various reasons discussed in previous posts. I've had satisfactory success with 1.)controlling food sensitivities (damn dairy in everything), 2.)using role playing, with much exaggeration, to demonstrate how it sucks to be hit/bit/scratched and how tough it is to deal with frustration/pain/fatigue - using toys, role reversal or setting up pretent scenarios that make the boy feel twitchy with the urge to aggress - then offering some obvious or sorta crazy sensory-based things to dissolve the stress, and 3.) interjecting my thoughts on how to express/handle frustration, etc. in any daily teachable moment.
I don't set aside special time for this stuff. I interject the lessons as often as I think he can hear it, until I see he is getting it. Then we just practice it by verbally reviewing our methods for coping and situations where we might need to cope - which gets easier as we approach 4 (I just totally jinxed myself).
Then again, it sounds like you think this isn't about not being able to control himself, rather trying to test boundaries in which case, uh, I guess, I would try to adapt the above to fit that scenario, somehow. Yep, ok, I'm pretty sure I am unprepared for 4 and it will now proceed to kick my ass. Cheers!
What I will say is that it's hard to say to a kid that he can't do something... sure there are consequences but if he doesn't realize there are other options to get out his frustration I think it's gonna be hard for him to understand those consequences in the heat of the moment. You've made it clear that he isn't supposed to hurt other people... he seems to understand that but he doesn't know how else to express what he is feeling. Maybe he needs some sort of physical outlet when he is angry. Something that lets him drain himself without inflicting it on someone else. Something simple like giving him a bunch of ice cubes and letting him throw them as hard as he can into the bathtub... it sounds weird but it lets him drain his energy, makes a certain amount of noise- it let's him be frustrated. Anger is perfectly normal, but for a kid his age, he needs to be shown a different way to express it- right now hitting and yelling may be the only ways he knows. If he knows he can come home and express his angry toward his teacher he may be less inclined to react in the moment. I mean, you've tried punishment- maybe the combination of the two would work because you aren't telling him he can't be angry- he can be, but he has to release it at an appropriate way and if he chooses to be inappropriate then there are consequences.
Can a hitting post be erected in the room? Can he bring a pillow to hit? I think he needs something he can be physical with and is inanimate. A 4 year old cannot let anger show through movement. Every adult I know at least uses their body to make an angry face and gesticulates in anger. Give him a safe way to do it- at school where the problem mainly is.
Oh my god... it's like you've been peering in our windows. My twins are four, and doing exactly the same things as Charlie. They are girls, but they can still pack a punch.
I look forward to making use of all the advice you get.
Ah, I can tell you that this is age appropriate behaviour and in our house we know that really this is about our 4/5/6 year old showing us that s/he has control.
So we reiterate everything you are doing, "how would you feel", "we don't hit," etc. but also give as many opportunities as possible for Charlie to be "in charge" and let him make his own decisions.
I once heard Adele Faber (How to talk so kids will listen...) say that when she first tried out Ginot's style she asked her non-bath wanting daughter, "Would you like your bath drawn with or without bubbles." and her daughter jumped at the opportunity to make a choice and be in control of the situation.
So does charlie want the red cup or the blue one? Does charlie want to put on his shirt, pants, or socks first today? Does charlie want to be in charge of setting the table for dinner? (only positive comments on how it looks please! (and post pictures for our enjoyment).) Does Charlie want vodka and redbull with dinner or just jack daniels on the rocks? You catch my drift here.
I find that the how to talk so kids will listen books to be really helpful at this age. "It looks to me like you're really really angry charlie...."
I wanted to second the commenter who makes their child repeat back what they did wrong and to the person they wronged, ie getting my five year old to say, "I hit my sister because I was upset and I should have used my words or come to talk to mommy. I'm sorry big sister for hitting/spitting/biting you."
My kids are 12 and 8.5, so I'm a parenting expert now.
(Bwahahahahaha! Ahhh, I slay me!)
No answers. At all. But an idea, from experience:
At the time that he hits, bites, kicks, does ANYTHING to another person, he becomes invisible. And not just that, but the victim should become the STAR. All attention goes to the victim. EVERYONE in the room should go over to the victim, ooh and aah over her, check on her, pat her, give her bandaids, bring her ice. But NOBODY should so much as LOOK at Charlie, if they can. Don't talk to him, not even to reprimand. (With my oldest, my daughter who was a biter at age 2ish, I'd go so far as to deliberately step over her on my way to check on her victim.) The point is both to make sure you don't reinforce the behavior with attention of any kind, and also to let him know that if he NEEDS your attention, he'll need to cut out the physical aggression.
It won't work the first time, and maybe not even the fourth. But probably soon after. Maybe. ;-p
Boy, this brought back memories. I used to think my daughter was turning into a wild animal. She's now celebrating her 17th birthday. She hit people. She also ran away, and would hide from me. I recall one day in Safeway them closing the store to help find her. I'm sick to the point of nearly puking and then there she is smelling the flowers. I removed her from the store. She was so ticked at me for stopping her flower shopping. Not my best mommy moment I sat her in the car and told her that a little boy her age ran away from Mommy to watch cartoons and a bad man took him and he NEVER SAW MOMMY AGAIN. She looked me right in the eye and said "What cartoon was it?" hahaha I now tell her stories of her refusing to hold my hand, "No thank you Mommy today I'll be holding my own hand!" as she'd walk off in a huff with her two little hands clasped together. She asks me "How did you let me live?!" He's at a tough age. The only thing that ever worked with her was taking away items and privileges. Delete his Tivo. Take away a favorite toy for 48 hours. Skip a play date or a trip to the park. While they seem small to us they do make an impression. And after all these years of struggling with infertility, giving up, and adopting a sibling for her who was always much more well behaved, suddenly out of no where we're pregnant. I shudder to think of going through all of this again at my age.
My now 5 year old son has autism and is generally very placid but when he has a meltdown 9 times out of 10 turns it on himself, biting himself or pinching himself. We do also have the other times when he lashes out (mainly at me - although I do recall one occasion aged nearly 4 at nursery school when he bit another child's finger for not taking turns properly) - sorry way too much background. BUT what I am trying to say in a roundabout way is that we have had to try to find alternative ways to get the frustration out (like the stomping idea, or hitting post).
Once he could articulate his frustration (which in itself made a huge difference) then we gave other options, such as squeezing his teddy very hard when he got angry or cross (because it makes you feel better and teddy is ok with it but a person wouldn't be, so it's a special feel-better squeeze). Also on one occasion as he tried to bite me, I thrust a bathtowel at him and told him to bite on it, and he did, instant relief and he calmed down. It's a sensory thing and he finds chewing/biting relieves tension.
I'd second/third/hundredth the deleting favourite tv programme idea, it's a question of finding the thing that matters a lot. But at that age, you really need a response soon after the incident.
I have a friend who has a jar in which her son gets a marble for behaving well, and marbles can be removed for poor behaviour.
Sorry - didn't mean to hijack...you seem to be doing the right thing. Good luck.
I can completely understand how you are feeling about all this. I have 5 children ranging from 16 months to 22 years. I have seen the terrible twos the revolting threes and the obnoxious fours. There is no hard and fast rule that will apply to all children. One thing that will help you though is to understand that children at this age have zero ability to apply logic. Logic is required to understand if I do this, then this will happen. Consequences that are not immediate and forewarned do not enter into the mind of these little people. However, punishment for these small crimes must be fair and consistent to set the ground work for when they can apply the lessons. For now, allow the school to punish on the spot, and you need to follow up at home with a conversation about the right way to behave the next time he feels like hitting. Hold tight to the knowledge that things will get better. Every few months you will see improvements. For this couple of months, he is acting out some sort of aggression toward something the teacher is doing that he doesn't like. Find out what that is, and practice at home better stragies for him to employ.
I definitely think that at age 4, this is age appropriate behavior. Now, of course it's not appropriate behavior, but it seems that all the other 4 year olds are doing it!
Anyway, what worked for us when the kids went through the hitting when angry phase was to have immediate consequences at school AND consequences at home. Every day when I took said child to school, we would talk about the rules, and what happens when we break the rules. Our consequence was that there would be no TV after school and no TV for the following day. It only needed to be used a few times before they got the point that whatever behavior was NOT OKAY.
I'm not a fan of Dr. Phil, but I completely agree with his opinion of finding a kid's "currency," and using that information to help correct behavior. If Charlie's currency is TV, use that. If his currency is fingerpainting, use that.
And just know that this too, shall pass!
Yes... yes... yes... and yes. To everything said here before.
I'm kind of a granola-crunchy type person to begin with, but when my now 5-year-old was hitting the teacher, my pacifist nature was seriously offended. We did the whole take stuff away, punishments, no TV... blah blah blah. It just made him more mad and more prone to acting out.
What finally worked for him, though, was meditation. (Yes... make hippy jokes. It's all good.) We taught him whenever he was angry about anything, he should take himself off to a corner, take some deep breaths and count to five, ten... whatever... and just focus on those numbers. If you're still not calm by the time you hit ten, go for fifteen or twenty or thirty. Whatever you have to do. So, Adam would get mad, head to the bathroom, have some quiet time, do his meditation and then come back reasonable and happy. It took a bit for his "group hug" teacher to understand he just needed some alone time, but it worked and he hasn't hit a teacher in several months.
Good luck.
When 6yo son was four, we saw a lot of hitting/kicking. He only ever did it to me, AFAIK (i.e. this behavior *may* be an indicator that he is especially comfortable with his teacher(s) and knows that they will love him anyway). The best method for us was the ignore/silent treatment plan. I would swiftly move him to his bed or another safe spot and explain, "I am walking away from you so that I can be safe and you can be safe. When you feel calm enough to talk, please come and find me." Which left the choice up to him and gave him the chance to calm down in his own way, without feeling he had to prove anything or "win."
Now, at six, he's defiant frequently, but he only gets physical when he hasn't been sleeping enough. These days we take his radio/CD player out of his room (because he would listen to the radio all night if we'd let him). It's his current currency. :)
Good luck - the fact that you are Working On It will ensure that it really is just one in a long stretch of unpleasant phases.
I'd like to be empathetic, but I'm too busy being tickled by the picture you paint!
My godson (my only experience with little-boy development) was obnoxious at four. He got over it. What was harder to deal with was his behavior at about age seven, when he began chasing down a couple of the little girls in his class and kissing them! It was terribly funny, terribly cute, and he meant absolutely nothing by it. Nevertheless, in this day and time you JUST CAN'T DO THAT! He was punished with every tactic under the sun and I don't remember that anything changed his mind; he just had to grow out of that stage, too.
So at least you have that to look forward to!
Well, for four it sounds like within the normal range, and most of what everyone has said here sounds good, from extra praise when he does good, to making sure that the punishment matters and is immediate.
I might add that boys that age also want to model their dads (or parent figure of the same gender) and even though you are home, your best weapon might be Paul. You know, like play wrestling with Dad where no one gets hurt shows a boy how to be rowdy but gentle. That a real man may be capable of hurting someone, but never ever would.
At minimum, sports or really any physical activity with his Dad will help wear him out.
And now the part I even hesitate to bring up---if it continues until 5 or 6, please consider getting him assessed by your doctor or another professional, not because I think he really does have a problem, but because former preemies can have issues with impulse control and behaviour. When we were getting our boys, now 12 and 9, assessed for ADHD, the psychologist was pretty interested in the meconium and low apgars and time without oxygen, not to mention my crap ass placenta.
The ADHD was inherited, from me, so the birth problems didn't cause it, but the learning issues my oldest has, caused him a lot of frustration and acting out, and they might have been caused by his problematic birth.
For example, he is empathatic, but has trouble with auditory perception. He can hear instructions, but doesn't really "get" them properly unless he reads them, so he gets angry and frustrated and has trouble caring about the "noise" coming out of people's mouths in the same way he cares about what he sees. When he was very little, he would just "hit" people to make them shut up.
Knowing that, we have worked on some ideas with the school specific to him and his frustration has gone down a LOT. And yes the ADHD meds have helped dramatically with the rest.
Punishment and rewards would not have made that kind of difference.
So, before anyone jumps, no, I'm NOT saying Charlie has anything outside the norm, just that with his preemie background, it might be worth investigating earlier instead of later.
Take care.
Maybe Charlie just needs a physical outlet to let out his anger and frustrations - possibly putting nails in a fence (you know how that goes) or enroll him in something boyish like T-ball or karate. That might be more positive outlet.
Oh, yuck. What a pain. I don't have time to read the comments right now, so apologies if I'm the 39th person to say this, but... have you tried to figure out if there is something else going on that is stressing him out and if he's lashing out because he doesn't know what else to do? I'm thinking about a problem with an older child or something, and he can't handle the older child so he takes his anger out on the teacher? That'd be one thing I'd consider. (Of course, my daughter is only 2, and while she did go through a very distressing biting phase, it was pretty clear that she was doing it because she lacked the words to say what was bothering her... so a different situation altogether).
You could also try teaching him something else physical to do to handle anger that is too intense to verbalize- for instance, stamping his feet and saying "naaaah". I've been working on this one myself. Its an idea I picked up from my husband and seems to be much better than my old habit of throwing things. (I'm 37 and still haven't fully learned how to control my anger....)
My last idea is to read (or re-read, as the case may be) Playful Parenting, which seemed to have lots of interesting ideas for dealing with aggression. That was where I found the idea that eventually stopped the biting ("playing it out", if you're curious). It seemed to be geared at older kids than mine, and I made a mental note to come back to it later.
I also have a 4 year old boy who hits. No advice. I am just SO RELIEVED when I hear about other kids doing the same thing.
Also, I was a biter. I remember the sweet feel of power at 3 years old when I got some slower, smaller kid to get the f&%k outta my way with a short tooth-to-leg conversation. I do not remember my mother desperately trying to talk me out of this behaviour, or her eventually BITING ME BACK. She apparently nearly vomited. She has apologised every year since I turned 16. But she also said it worked. I swear I'm a really nice person now.
I think that 4 is a very frustrating age for kids because they can't do all the things they want to be able to do, and they take out their frustrations by hitting or biting. One of the most important lessons you can teach your children is that their actions have consequences. You hit someone, you leave the playground, even if you just arrived and it took you an hour to get there. I hope that the teachers are taking immediate action, but you also have to let him know that it's serious (as you're already doing). So it doesn't matter much what you take away, as long as you follow through and really do show him that if he misbehaves there are consequences. It may not work right away, but in the long run it will, and in a while he'll be 5, which is a terrific age.
I envisioned "2029" as an actual company, one simplified to bleak numbers, that might employ Charlie in the grim dystopian future. It wasn't until your second mention of 2029 that I realized you meant the year 2029. Ha!
I have no advice to offer, sorry; I'm just damn happy that you posted about your difficulties so that I could glean nuggets of info with which to arm myself against my 3 and 4-1/2 year olds. The 4-1/2 year old is fairly considerate of others, though sometimes he has difficulty listening to directions, but the 3 year old is in a stage: hitting, kicking, talking back, and saying unfriendly or inappropiate words like "stupid" and "butt." None of these behaviors is okay in our household or at preschool.
Luckily, neither boy has peed on toys yet...
I can only give you empathy, but no advice. I swear I wrote this post two days ago, only you said it much better. My son is 2 months shy of 4 years old and has become a complete, raving, violent lunatic who doesn't need a mom or dad anymore. I'm going to go read your comments and see if there is any good advice.
I'm curious as to why you don't want Charlie not to "use his body to show he's angry." You use the phrase a few times, so I assume you've used it with Charlie. I imagine that, for a 4 year old, this would be really, really confusing. After all, making an angry face is using your body to show you're angry. Jumping up and down, banging your fists on the floor, etc., all ways of using your body to show that you're angry. I wonder if this is such a broad way of phrasing it that Charlie has trouble applying it to the behavior that you really want to stop - hitting other people.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you mention "his INABILITY to control his anger, his tendency to lash out physically when something pisses him off." He's 4 - people have already mentioned that the prefrontal cortex is still developing, there are probably situations where he is NOT able to control his anger. As we get older we get better at being able to experience things without actually doing them, but for a 4 year old, stomping and hitting IS angry, and he may not be able to experience the emotion without the physical behaviors. (Since it sounds like Charlie is very verbal, this probably feels more challenging than if he couldn't express himself as well. Since he is able to express his feelings well most of the time, it may seem like he *should* be able to use that skill when he's angry. But we all regress in the grip of strong emotions, so Charlie may not be capable of using these verbal skills the way you might hope he would when he is very angry.)
Instead, can you brainstorm with Charlie *different* ways that he can be angry and feel angry that don't hurt other people? This might make more sense to him. You could ask something like "When you are mad you have a lot of energy in you that you want to get out, and right now you use it to hit X because you are so angry. But we don't hurt people, so can you help me think of things that will use that mad energy that won't hurt someone?"
Interesting. Frankly I'm not a fan of any of the surrogate actions — jumping up and down, stamping feet, et cetera — so it hasn't occurred to me to encourage those instead. So is it unreasonable to expect him not to expend his anger physically?
Oh boy. My kids are 28 and 31 -that's years, not months, and I don't recall any teacher hitting episodes, but then I don't recall much anymore. I agree with most of the comments above,this is age appropriate and may be fueled by frustration, immaturity, and poor impulse control - the kid is 4 after all! I also agree that the school has to take the lead on this, your reaction, while very important, just happens to long after the behavior to be meaningful. I suspect that when Charlie hauls back to belt that teacher it feels to him like forever before he will be going home.Which brings me to my point (finally). Perhaps you could arrange in advance that if he hits again the teacher would explain that Charlie will have to go home immediately. You would be summoned and take him home to an very very boring rest of the school day. The next day he goes back to school...
Or it might help for you to spend a day or 2 "helping" in his class. You would explain that you are there to help the teacher with the other kids, or perhaps to "work" at her desk. You wouldn't pay any extra attention to Charlie, and after a while you would be able to quietly observe the classroom activities. Julie, you have such wonderful insight into your son, you may notice something that the teacher, who does NOT know Charlie as well as you do, hasn't.
Anyway, this too shall pass and besides by the time the boys are my kids ages the ravages of age will have provided a blessed amnesia.
All of this is great stuff, but that amnesia part is the most encouraging bit so far.