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10/21/2009
Your invitation is in the mail
This morning's breakfast conversation:
Charlie: When Ben and I are grown men, we'll still be brothers. But we won't live in the same house.
Julie, thinking, I hope not, because that'll mean both of you are in prison: You could live in the same house if you wanted.
C.: No! I need a lady! To be my spouse! It has to be a lady. Men are spouses with ladies.
J.: Well, actually, some men are spouses with other men. So you don't have to have a lady if you don't want to. In fact, you don't have to —
C., brightening appreciably: Oh! Well, then, I will have a man for a spouse.
J.: — have a spouse at all. Oh. Huh. Got anyone in mind?
C.: Yes! M.! He will be my spouse!
J., faintly, considering M.'s flair for mayhem, imagining a ruined Christmas 20 years down the road when a drunk and angry M. finally tells poor Charlie that Santa is a filthy fucking lie: Hmmm.
C.: And, Mama, you can come to the wedding!
J.: Thanks. I'd love to.
C.: You will love it! M. and I will wear matching outfits!
In twin Elmo underpants or not, in malicious Santa-ruining and out, I believe every preschooler should have the right to marry the incorrigible rapscallion he loves. Don't you think so?
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I definitely do.
I'm just waiting until we're old ladies, well past the sexing years, so I can marry *you*.
Roger that! Hehehe!
Absolutely, which is why I've already voted. I love that whole voting early thing.
And Barbie doesn't need Ken anymore becaus Barbie has Suzie. At Barbie's house, the toilet seats stay down AND DRY.
~~~words spoken by then 5yo K. Love that kid.
I do indeed think so!
I do indeed think so!
Of course! A couple of years ago S was going to marry J because "We are princesses and that's what princesses do. Get married."
Rock on kiddo. I look forward to the double-Cinderella-dresses.
Absolutely! My little sister is about to celebrate her 13th anniversary with her partner. Unfortunately it's not a "wedding" anniversary since for some reason our politicians think their commitment to each other isn't worthy of a "marriage."
It thrills me every time a state allows gay marriage, because at some point it will finally be available throughout the US.
Sounds like my kids. I always say "the PERSON you marry" because it's more accurate. My middle child, at four, said he wanted to marry a boy instead of a girl. The then-seven-year-old jumped in with "dude, then you'd be gay!" and the four-year-old then proclaimed that he was gay over dinner. It led to an interesting discussion about their two gay uncles, how "gay" is not a pejorative term and we do NOT use it as such, etc. Sadly their father (the brother of the two gay uncles, no less) is very homophobic and said you can't have two moms or two dads. So we watched a clip online from "Five Under Five with K and J." After which the oldest said "well I guess you were right, those kids did have two moms." Hee!
YES! And I'll be voting for that right too (well, for adults)! I'm Disgusted by the manipulative commercials aired lately on my tv station here in Maine from the opposition.
I've always told P (and K, but he's still too little to really get it) that they can marry anyone they want. P said the other day that Daddy said that boys couldn't get married. I said that was true in Georgia because some states are narrow-minded and ignorant and think that families only come one way. And then I realized that my 5-year-old looked a bit bewildered and said that hopefully by the time he's old enough to get married, they will have fixed the law so that people can marry whoever they love best.
*sniffs* Beautiful.
Ben seems to be trying to figure out how he's going to get a wife. I think he's determined a club over the head and dragging her up the alter is the best bet.
It's how I married The Daver.
This is the moment when I feel grateful that I live in Canada and this is not up for debate. No smugness intended!
Wow - what a difficult concept to approach with children - especially at this age. Living DEEP in the south, it is something that would DEFINITELY be uncomfortable for public discussion (which is what children LOVE to do to you...)
I am raising my girls to love and respect others' wishes, that every one is a valued human being, and that bigotry, name calling, and bashing of any kind is absolutely unacceptable....hope it may be awhile before this particular discussion comes up.
Good job in your approach....I may need lessons. What's your hourly rate?
Agreed, and I'll be voting as such on Nov. 3.
Of course!
A few weeks ago, my dad was struggling with this subject with my brothers (ages 14 & 15) after Bro A started a rumor at school that the Bro B was gay... Dad told me "I want to say 'why the hell does it matter if he's gay', but I've tried to raise my kids to believe that homosexuality is not what G-d intended for us". I decided a long time ago that I just want my (future)kids to be happy and healthy-- gay or straight is irrevalent!! (sorry dad)
Had a similar conversation with my 5yo last year, when she was convinced that Frank, our priest, must be married to Mrs. Frank, her preschool teacher. Had to remind her that, no, there was indeed a Mr. Frank, and that our Frank was already married to Chuck. Made sense to her.
That's our boy. So.flippin.cute.
Of course he should be able to marry whoever he loves and it's ridiculous that our country doesn't allow it.
It's a good way to find out if you want to be friends with other parents -- remarking on the cuteness of their daughter, how someday she'd be a good match for your son... or your daughter, depending on the preferences of the kids.
I love how much sense that makes to kids. I hope it means we are still headed in the right direction :)
My absentee ballot went out in the mail last week. I agree with Christina, the commercials here in Maine are ridiculous. It makes me glad we only let the kids watch PBS Sprout. But I'd sooner let them watch CSI than those stinking Yes on 1 commercials.
My three year old told me last week that when he grows up he might be a girl for a little while. Go for it, buddy. We can get our nails done together.
My husband froke out a little this morning because our four-year-old son was wearing my high heels. I say, son, let your drag flag fly. :-)
I think we had this conversation at our dinner table growing up, with my brother who did turn out to be gay. He is currently engaged, but lives in a state without civil unions, etc. But my kids will always love their two uncles, because frankly, they pick out the best Christmas gifts! =)
I have a feeling you are preaching to the (pretty darn accepting) choir! A good reminder that prejudice is TAUGHT, not inherent.
Yeah, the TV ads are bad enough, but have any of you fellow Mainers seen the letters to the editor??? I have never seen such ignorant nonsense in my life, and I've seen a LOT of ignorant nonsense. Now, I don't care who my almost 4-yr old son one day hooks up with, but his suggestion that he might choose his younger sister to be "his Mommy" (so he can be "a Daddy") is definitely out!
My kids and their two moms thank you for your support! Love you, Julie!
Abso-frickin-lutely he should be able to marry whomever he chooses :)
Love it. :) 27 years into it, my own parents are still struggling with that one. When I was young and gay, somehow the topic of gay sex being "dangerous" came up and I think you could've knocked my mother over with a feather when I told her that I (at the time) was planning on waiting until marriage. Because gays don't marry. And I just shrugged, and said that some day we would. That was 7 years ago. I thought at the time I might be bluffing. I really hope I wasn't.
I may be the minority here, but...from a legal standpoint, I support gay marriage. Two consenting adults can do what they please. But I am raising my child to know that God intended for a man and woman to be together. I am glad I have that right, too.
Thank you for this post and for all the suportive comments.
I am living a life I never could have imagined as a child, as an angst ridden teen, or even a young woman - my partner of 20 years (our "marriage" - thank you not much California - anniversary is Oct. 30) and our 3 kids are an example of how "gay" marriage niether affects nor effects a "straight" marriage, unless of course its to show that gay people exist, exist as productive, happy, family members.
I think of all my lost years trying to be someone I wasn't and all the kids who may not have to do that anymore.
I've always thought I was absolutely raising my kids to be as straight as possible because who in the heck would ever choose this path... I think I need to rethink that now.
Kel
Jennifer, hope you're living the rest of Leviticus too. Got slaves?
If I am ever blessed to have them, I am going to raise my kids to know that I would never presume to know what God intended, but that I do know that I want them to be happy, and both God and I will love them no matter who they choose to love.
I hope that you are right about you being in the minority, Jennifer.
A little boy in my son's kindergarten class announced that he wanted to marry my son the other day.
As the story was related to me, a third child piped up with "that's not even legal," only to be shot down by my son, who has quite a few friends with gay parents. He quickly reassured the group that it was too legal and there are lots of different ways to make a family (a catch phrase in our household). I didn't have the heart to tell him that the issue of legality is actually determined on a state-by-state basis...
I am so fortunate that my kid has male 'Aunties' and lesbian grandparents. The two women I most admire are a gay couple that adopted two mixed race boys, giving them more love and stability that so many 'found Jesus after the third divorce' hetero couples I've had the misfortune to know.
Really.
I do! But not the matching outfits part. That is just disgusting.
I love it!!
When I was in grade three my best friend and I had a secret plot to get married so we wouldn't ever have to be apart. Only no one had told us
a) that two girls could get married (because they couldn't in Canada, yet, this being many years go)
or
b) that it might even be in the works. I didn't find out about lesbians until grade five.
So instead we spent a lot of time arguing about who would have to dress up as the man. It usually ended up being me, since I was taller, but I didn't like the idea at all.
Then I moved away and I never saw her again.
I want my girls to marry the person they choose, man or woman, but I want them to wear a long white dress.
I'm a liberal southern belle. Sorry. I REFUSE TO GIVE IN ON THE LONG WHITE DRESS. BRED INTO THE BONES. FORMAL WEDDING. DANCE. TOAST. HOR-DERS. BIG CAKE. WEDDING PORTRAIT OVER FIREPLACE.
Considering that I took my 3rd grade daughter shopping for NFL t-shirts at Goodwill today, I may not get the long white dress.
I had a similar conversation with my 12 yo man-cub over Taco Bell tonight. He's one of the coolest males I know. A slightly younger, very butch boy keeps getting in my son's space, but not in a threatening manner, and my son opined that the young man may be gay. We had a great conversation about openness, the need for a society where it wouldn't be shameful to be crushing on another boy, and most importantly, how to accept a friend while not having to accept unwanted advances. Things continue to get better out there for young gay kids, but we're still miles away from where we need to be.
Absolutely, though if it's a legally binding commitment I hope they'll wait until middle school. Do they make Elmo underpants for that age group, too?
With many other commenters, we've got family members who are gay, so yes, same-sex unions will be commonplace to our son and yes, we are horrified at the legal discrimination that some of our loved ones face.
I quite enjoy the fact that in this generation, gay parenting is almost invisible. One of my close friends who lives in my town is a lesbian mom whose daughter is friends with my son. My kids and I are over at their house a lot, which is a fun, happy place. Never have they asked me why these two women live together and have two kids together (although once my daughter wanted to know where they got the sperm to make their kids). And when a friend of mine was on a show called "30 Days," where a woman lived with my friend and his partner and their four boys for 30 days even though she was against gay parenting, I had to explain to my kids why this was considered an interesting episode.
B, I'm just presenting another side, peacefully and with respect for everyone. As a Christian, I live under grace not the law. It's also the New Testament that refers to marriage between a man and woman, not just Leviticus. What's really important is that I would love my child no matter what, just as I believe God loves gays (and everyone) no matter what. We don't have to agree with everything people do to love, accept, and respect them and their rights. That's why I'm not against the legality of gay marriage.
B, I'm just presenting another side, peacefully and with respect for everyone. As a Christian, I live under grace not the law. It's also the New Testament that refers to marriage between a man and woman, not just Leviticus. What's really important is that I would love my child no matter what, just as I believe God loves gays (and everyone) no matter what. We don't have to agree with everything people do to love, accept, and respect them and their rights. That's why I'm not against the legality of gay marriage.
That is so many kinds of awesome.
Thank you. Really.
I was having the "can a girl marry a girl" chat just yesterday with my five year old daughter. I told her that by the time she's old enough to get married that any two people who love each other will be able to get married. She replied "good--then I'll marry YOU!" (I love it that she can feel that way one moment, and that I'm ruining her life the next.)
As part of a lesbian couple living in a rural community I worried about how we would be received on many levels. I laughed recently when a friend said he would be happy if either his son or his daughter ended up with my daughter...
I once got to explain to the firstborn, as we stood on the porch of some very Republican neighbors that while our church would marry him to his best friend when he was old enough, the Commonwealth of Virginia might not acknowledge their union.
A couple of years later, he informed his little brother that if he wanted to marry *his* best friend, he should be much better about going to church so he could do so.
I'm guessing it's not the same church as Jen's.
This debate is one of the many reasons I love my church. We have a gay couple raising two adopted boys. A transgender couple (both MTF) with no kids, and a gay seminarian.
Gay is okay for our daughter.